At this morning's Planning Committee Meeting (every 3rd Sunday, 9am @ Club Office), the issue of "hand picking" a portion of the CDC All Star Team was brought up.

This is an annually recurring dilemma.

The "hand picking" has been done by one person, up to a committee of several. Still, it is always controversial.

How do you feel about it?

Here's the first of what will probably be numerous polls on the subject - hopefully. But this one is the brass tacks / starting point.

How does hand picking work anyways?
How many people on the team dont earn their place in the second round, just get picked by one person or a committee?
Who does it. How do you get to be the ONE person or on the committee?
So if your not part of the good ole boys club you cant make the team?
How can anyone really pick between those guys when they hit so many 180s?
Or does it go by how many write ups you get on dart night?
Is it all about whos friends with who or is it about who can prove they are the best players?

Here's how I think it works, although the exact process is not well documented, so someone please correct me if I got anything wrong:

Currently, any player who meets the minimum qualifying score (generally 1,600 for men and 1,200 for women) and has been on the All star team in both of the previous 2 years is eligible for “handpick” status. From that group of individuals, a panel (called the “handpick” committee) is charged with the very difficult task of selecting those members that are awarded “handpick” spots. In addition, the Committee Chair (also known as the “director”) can select, at his/her discretion, additional player(s) not meeting the above criteria, as a “handpick.” These have generally been referred to as “director picks.” I believe the rule is that no less than ¼ and no more than ½ of the All Star Team can be made up of “handpicks.” The rest of the team is determined through the normal Phase I/Phase II process.

Joe D, you bring up good points. I personally can't argue with the handpick selections from prior years, although I'm sure there will always be cases where certain "borderline" players will be slected over other "borderline" players. The fact that there is a "perception" that personal feelings could come into play (which, let's face it, is almost inevitable) makes me feel that a more "objective" way of awarding all star team spots is needed. While certain players in this Club clearly stand out, there are just too many other talented darters in this club to honestly distinguish between their ablilities. Here's my suggestion for selecting the All Star Team for the men (something similar would be used for the women):


1) Individuals with the top 12 phase I qualifying scores of “Eligible Players” make the team without having to go through Phase II (to be eligible, you must either have been on the all star team in each of the past two seasons, or be regionally or nationally ranked by the ADO)

2) 4 spots also awarded to winners of “round-robin” style qualifying tournaments (to be held on a periodic basis throughout the qualifying period)

3) The remaining 12 spots would be determined through the normal Phase II process.

I honestly believe that this approach would yield a team very similar to the one that would result using the handpick approach, but without the controversy or negative perceptions.

Jeff

Well, these are all good questions!
You'll find that just about everyone will have an opinion on each of them.
Historically, it's been difficult to prove who is right, or wrong.
In any case, here's my 2¢ on them:

In a nutshell, handpicking bypasses/circumvents the Phase II Qualifying - a grueling round robin competition that makes an average league night seem like a game of Chutes & Ladders. (I never really played that game, but I'm told it's quite simple)
Until recent years, "handpicked" players were not required to throw the 60-dart minimum in Phase I qualifying.
Still, IMO, it's not worth the hassle.

This number has changed over the years as well, if I'm not mistaken. Last year, 24 of the 44-person roster was handpicked. You can see the list here
Your syntax is perfect here, though: they "dont earn their place in the second round" is literally correct. However, you can't really say that they didn't earn their place overall. At the very least, they are very good players. In most cases, exceptional players, by anyone's standard.

The Allstar Team Committee is appointed by the President & Board of Directors. The Allstar Committee then decides how, or if, Handpicking is done. They are supposed to report their method to the board, of course.

Speaking as just the numbers/graphics/office custodian guy, I don't have much more insight on this one than you probably do. I will say that's a rather rash statement, as, once again, I don't think you can look at the list of Handpicks over the years and say they got "picked" just by knowing someone. In fact, unless you happen to be one of them, my money says that you can't beat any of them in a best-of-7 competition. Any of them.
I can assure you, just by looking at their names: none of them were picked just because someone liked them

NOW you're getting to the nitty of it all! How in the world do you do it??
Basically, you're expecting someone, or some group, to choose the best "dartflesh" in The Club, by incorporating whatever voodoo is imagineable; tournament experience, league scores, achievements, how badly they whooped you or your team somewhere.... HOW?

I've had this conversation with every Allstar captain since 1989, about the handpicking. GET RID OF IT. Why subject yourself (the captain, in this case) to the ridicule and dislike of your peers over some arbitrary decision that you make? It's not worth it. Whether the team wins or loses, it's just not worth the headache of constantly explaining why you chose a certain group of people to forego the complete process.

This is somewhat similar to those armchair league directors out there who think they know how to schedule a team, based on the roster. How they competed in the past, etc. Granted, upper-caliber players are much easier to pigeon-hole, but it's still no sure thing. And if you can do it another way - why not do it the easiest way? A competition.

I really don't know what portion of the algorithm is occupied by writeups, but I would guess it's minimal. Memory may be failing me, but I don't recall anyone ever asking me for a list of writeups for the Allstar team. And that's one that would come to me.

Once again, I think it's heavily weighted toward the latter. No captain is going to choose their best friend to be on the team if they can't take out a double. It's just too obvious.
BUT, the mere fact that you, and so many others, have accused this favoritism of existing is exactly my reason for believing it should be abolished. It's just not worth the innuendo - regardless of win or lose. The volunteers don't deserve it, and the players themselves certainly deserve better. Knowing their competitive nature, I seriously doubt that any of them would want to be accused of getting a spot on the team just because they were friendly with the captain.

First, I notice 160+ people have viewed this thread, but only 9 have voted. And only a couple comments. Let's hear what you have to say!

I had started to prepare a response to Joe D's questions, but it looks like Jeff & Scott beat me to it. I will add some of my thoughts, though.

As far as whether or not to have any handpicks, I'm still undecided. I don't like the current system, but don't necessarily think the concept of exempting a portion of the team from playing in Phase 2 should be eliminated altogether.

I understand there is a logical rationale behind having a portion of the team exempted from Phase 2. It's not supposed to be about who is friends with who or any type of favoritism. But the guy who thinks he should have been a handpick that didn't get it will almost always cry that "I'm better than so and so and they know it, so they must have picked him over me because they're friends."

I think a part of the reasoning behind "handpick" is so you don't have all your best players playing off against one another, potentially knocking each other out if they were to end up in the same bracket. However, if your top players did play off in Phase 2, this could be avoided by proper seeding based on Phase 1 scores.

As Jeff said, there are certain players that stand out and are clearly recognized for their abilities. I have no issue with those players being exempt from Phase 2.

The difficulty comes in when you get to those players who are clearly talented but have not yet made it to that "top" status. Someone has to narrow down a group of say 10-12 very good players to pick only a few. Not an easy task since we have quite a few players who on any given day can hang with the best. In that situation, I think that maybe fewer handpick spots should be awarded and let the "borderline" players ALL go to Phase 2 instead of trying to determine which couple of them are the "best" in that group. We don't have computerized statistics like they have in soft tip for comparison purposes, so too much is left up to opinion and the last game "they" saw you play.

I think if the handpick system continues, it requires a complete revamping. Automatic awards of spots on the team need to be based on something more tangible than just opinion, ie. Regional & National ADO rankings, league statistics (win/loss records & write-ups) & performance at specific tournaments.

And you guys thought Scott was long winded! B)


Rose

Rose, some of the 160+ views are most likely repeat viewers. Which just shows how hot this topic is. ;) and more responses added would be nice. :D

I agree if the handpick process is continued it must be revamped.
League stats I presume are costly and time consuming.
When it comes down to it for me I think handpicking causes more problems then helps. JMHO

I AM! :P

When being a member of the All-Star team begins to pay your mortgage and gasoline bills, then, be really concerned about the supposed unavailability of slots due to the hand-picking process. Otherwise, stop sucking on sour grapes and PRACTICE more so you can make the team. I know that I am not good enough, nor want to PRACTICE enough to make the team.

Just because these members have dedicated themselves enough to be the very consistant best our club has to offer, and we others don't want to (dedicate ourselves that is), is no reason to belittle what they are trying to achieve. Though I have no aspirations to that effect, I still cannot see why anyone would want to apply the Blind Sguirrel theory. Just as any given Sunday, any Pro team can win, we still need the people that can 'bring it' more often than not.

There is no way, shape, or form for a selection or non-selection process that will please all club members EVER. Let these ladies and gentlemen perform as best they can. DARTS is a game, not a way of life. Get over it and on with yours.

Shoot well.

"D"

jmoses
I skimed through the posts. I was wondering is there is a panel vote to determine who is handpicked or if it is up to one person. :ph43r:

AFTER BEING ON THE ALL STAR TEAM FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS I'VE HEARD IT ALL .YOU CAN NEVER PLEASE EVERYONE. IT HAS BEEN AN ALL HANDPICKED TEAM
AND IT'S BEEN AN ALMOST ALL QUALIFY TEAM AND ITS BEEN A PARTIAL. IN ORDER TO PUT THE CITY'S BEST TEAM FORWARD SOMEONE HAS TO MAKE THE
HARD DECISIONS OTHERWISE THINGS WOULD BE OUT OF CONTROL. EVERYONE
IN THE CLUB IS INVITED TO PLAY. THE SUNDAY OF PLAY IS VERY HARD AND IT HELPS TO HAVE A VETERAN OR TWO AROUND TO KEEP THINGS REAL. ANYONE COMPLAINING DO I SEE YOU IN COLUMBUS YEAR AFTER YEAR? IF YOU LIKE HAVING A WINNING CITY TO BE PROUD OF IN DARTS PART OF THE TEAM NEEDS TO BE PICKED AND THE REST COME FROM PHASE 2 (WHERE MORE TALENT AND HUNGER COME FROM).

I am curious, as far as I remember, Cleveland has only lossed the quad city tournament once since I have been a member of the CDC('88).

My question is how was that team "Picked"?????

As far as the complaining and sucking sour grapes, I believe everyone on this thread was answering the original post and asking questions to clarify how it was done.("hand picking")

F.Y.I. KARENK you may not be aware that typing in all CAPS is concidered yelling in a Forum <_<

I've been working in the office since Oct'88, and at least some portion of team has been handpicked since then. A compelling argument can be made that "handpicking" is the main reason that our teams have enjoyed success (winning) over the years.

I can assure you, Karen is new to this "stuff". She's been around league darts longer than both you and I, but she's definitely a newbie when it comes to Forum "etiquette". Give her a little time - THEN you can flame her! :D

BTW, using "guided mode" for the HTML code buttons is a very nice feature, for those who aren't in the habit of typing their own bracket switches. :)

No Flame intended B) Believe me you'll know when the flame is intended ;)

Now that's a much better arguement than "sucking on sour grapes" and don't complain unless you've been an Allstar. :P

Actually, there are several reasons for having at least a partially handpicked roster. I don't want to monopolize the debate here, so I'll just post #2. Hopefully some other pro-handpick people will take the cue.

Phase II of the Allstar Qualifying process is particularly grueling in its own right. As is just about any Round Robin tournament. To bring it into perspective, for the league player, imagine that there will be only a First & Second Place team in your division at the end of the session. The First Place team isn't necessarily determined by league scores, but let's assume that they are significantly better than the rest of the teams. Maybe they just get home-field advantage, or seeding, because they earned it with all of their regular league play wins.

But they're really good. So much so that no one has any desire to play them to determine who gets 1st Place because they're just "significantly" better, and it would be pointless to have them in the mix - bringing down everyone's spirits as they annihilate your guys one after the other - pillaging and plundering your roster and drinking all of your cold beer.... totally demoralizing situation, right? :(

Well, what if you could just pull that 1st Place team out of the bracket altogether? No one has to play them because it's a foregone conclusion. Just say that they won 1st Place during regular league play on their merits, so why have them in the final competition to finally determine 1st Place? That leaves the rest to work on the 2nd Place spot.

And that leaves you with a better matched field of players to compete for the 2nd Place spot.

In the case of the Allstars, "handpicking" pulls some extremely good players out of the mix, and potentially gives a lot more players a chance to compete for a spot on the team.

Doesn't seem such a system of "favoritism" if you look at it that way. And, especially when you consider that those players who are handpicked weren't chosen just because they dress well or washed the director's car. Yes, they may do those things as well - but first and foremost they are a VERY good player. Someone who will almost certainly knock off anyone who is looking for a "2nd place" spot on the team. The lesser player. Please note, when I say "lesser player", I'm still talking about someone who will most likely beat you (and I mean most people reading this now), hands down, until you've practiced diligently for at least a few years. Call them Lesser Dart Gods, for the purpose of perspective.

Scott you bring up a very good point of view. B)

I say "IF" and I stress "IF" I was a "Lesser Dart God" personally, I would still want to play "The Dart Gods" and take my knocks and try to learn from them.

a few questions

In a round Robin format don't you get to play everyone?

Is it limited in the number of darters?

Does pulling hand picks from the round robin tournament actually allow more darters to compete?

Brave of you to say so! :D
However, some things are easier said than done. Your perspective, right now I'm guessing, is of someone who wants to compete. "Competing" and "making the team" are two different issues - IMO. The ultimate goal is the team competition - so everyone wants to make the team. Oh sure, there's the occasional "player" out there who just wants to mix it up with the best and advance their game skills exponential to what regular league play and pick-up games will do. And that's great! But that's rare, IMHO. I think that the primary goal of most players is to make the team.

Correct. You play everyone in the bracket at least once. Your league schedule is a "round robin", where you play each team in the division twice in an 8-team schedule. In a 6-team 15-week schedule you'll play each team 3 times. In a 4-team schedule you play each team 5 times over 15 weeks.

The format rules are published here It's the top 32 men and the top 16 women after handpicks have been removed from the lists. Those people are determined by Phase I scores.

Technically, no - I believe I mispoke on this originally. And it's definitely a fine line of interpretation.
One could say exactly what you just said - correct me if I'm wrong: If you don't pull the handpicks from the Phase II Round Robin, and you have a bracket of 48 (16 would-be handpicks + 32 from the top of the Phase I Qualifying list), they all play each other once in a best-of-3 and there you have it! No problem, all's fair, right?

For starters - it's not seeded. It's a draw, if I'm not mistaken. If it was seeded, then you may as well just go ahead and scratch the bottom 16 players from the bracket.
[SIDEBAR: You know that complaint you get from the Bronze/Silver player when they think they may be playing the infamous "gold player"? That they can't possibly win, etc, etc.... Well, in this case, if the qualifier was seeded, 9 times out of 10 the top 16 "handpick" crew is going to eliminate the bottom-16. They're that good, and it could possibly have an impact on the number of players who make an attempt at getting into the Top-32 with their Phase I score. After all, in their mind what hope do they have if they're just going to get bounced by the vast majority of the "handpicks", if they're not pulled from the qualifier as they are now?]

So, you've got that little psychological mind**** to play with.
Then there's the good ol' luck of the draw. Imagine getting drawn to play against 3, 4, 5 or more "handpicks" in a row? I'll tell you right now, you will play your guts out and lose. It's that simple. You're gonna lose. It's waaay beyond the league night thing - where the Bronzie is complaining about the hot-hand "alleged" Gold player on the other team. I'm talking about bona-fide tournament-caliber players; the "dart gods", if you will. They play best-of-3 on league nights and then pick-up games after. You might also call them sick. ^_^

So, you may have been a decent prospect for the team. Had your hopes up. Scored say, #19 in the Top 32. But if it's a seeded Phase II (which it isn't), you're going to be playing one Top16 player after another in the first bracket. By the time you've lost about 35 games - and I mean really lost - how much do you think you've got left in the basket to try and make the team against the the other 16 "non-handpicks"?

Losing is tough for most highly competitive people. I'll end this part of the argument by saying that it would be detrimental to the "farm process" of bringing up new players to try out for the team if the Phase II was seeded with the handpick-quality players thrown in the mix.

That being said, it leaves you with a NON-seeded Round-Robin, where the luck of the draw determines who is playing who. And with approximately 1/3 of the players being significantly better (anchor players) than the rest of the field, it's a foregone conclusion once you see the bracket drawn as to who is going to be really beat up and possibly totally demoralized by the end of the first 3-4 rounds. There's no real way to "protect" those 'lesser players' from getting their noses rubbed in it - unless you pull the top-notch players out of the system.
Well, none that I can think of, anyway. Perhaps someone else can come up with a method.

So, I can fully understand the reasoning behind having a handpicked squad of players.

There's other reasons, too. For instance, the handpick player may not throw in the top-16 in Phase I (where you throw 60 darts for high score). But, he may still be more valuable than a high-scoring rookie who's never played in an event such as the Quad-City Challenge. The old "experienced warhorse" rationale.
Remember when the Tribe signed Eddie Murray, at the end of his career? And what about Orel Hershiser? In his last season in the majors, Yankee great Dave Winfield signed with us as a free agent, in `95. Why? Because the rest of the team was still practically in diapers! Management wanted some veterans around - who may have been past their prime, but could still knock a few down now and then. But beside that, they could take the rookie players by the hand and teach them the finer elements of the game that you can't expect a coaching staff to do.

And that's a big part of the gamesmanship and TEAM approach to building an Allstar team. It's not league night. A completely different level. Anyone who has ever competed in Columbus will tell you it's different. I'm sure they can describe it better than I can. But I've seen it for the better part of 16 years and it's definitely different.

That all being said, I still stick to my original notion that it's just not worth it. The handpicking.
It's not worth the controversy and heartache that comes up every time, year in and year out.
Second, and perhaps foremost - I don't believe that "winning is everything". To some, that's blasphemous. And I used to think so too. What's the point if you're not there to win, right?
After playing the game for many years, at nearly every level - and being around the game at every level for many more years - I guess I've either mellowed or matriculated. Playing the game is more important, to me, than winning. Winning is good! Winning should be the goal! But it is not the end-all. You lose, you learn, you come back another day to play again. And you may keep on losing! But the enjoyment of playing should supercede the necessity of winning.

Of course, I could be wrong! But that's how I feel about it. ^_^

And I think that's about where this issue of handpicking falls. It's one of those "twain shall never meet" kinda deals.

There's a very good chance that without handpicking the Allstar team will not be as competitive. They may stand a better chance of losing. To wit, I say SO WHAT? You get out there, you do your best, you PLAY THE GAME. That, to me, is what is more important.

Perhaps a different method of seeding, or type of final qualifying event can be devised that will forego the handpicking and still assure a very high caliber team.
Does anyone here have a suggestion?

Hey I have an Idea!! We could put all the phase I qualifier's names on a dart board and have a bronze player throw darts at it :lol: Just Kidding

No good ideas here, I will have to think about it. :blink:

Better yet we could have Dennis throw at the board. It would be anyones guess then. :ph43r:

I agree! Someone needs to make the "hard decision" to create an OBJECTIVE process of qualifying for the All Star Team. However, making the decision to keep the status quo of allowing a "handpick committee" to select "handpicks" based on vague and very subjective criteria is NOT a hard decision IMO.

In an earlier post, I suggested one possible method of selecting our all star team. But this is just one possibility. I would like to hear others' ideas on other possible methods. Obviously no one method is perfect but we should always seek ways to improve or do things better.

Good points.

I'm not seeing anyone "complaining." I'm seeing some constructive comments and expression of opinions. Isn't that the point of this forum?

I respect your opinion Karen. You've been through the wars and you offer a practical and realistic perspective. However, I cannot agree with your premise that "having a winning city to be proud of" is predicated on the need to handpick a portion of our all star team. "Handpick" implies a "subjective" method of selecting all stars. I think there is a need to minimize the "perception" that personal bias comes into play when selecting handpicks (which let's be honest, is inevitable). The mere perception that personal bias may affect handpick decisions is reason enough to consider other more objective selection criterea.

Lighten up, Francis! You're not curing cancer here. Perhaps you should respond to some of these posts before your morning Bloody Mary.
Seriously, though, I know where your heart is and you have some good ideas. Don't be fooled, though, a lot of what you're seeing are complaints;not merely concerns and/or criticisms and/or helpful observations.
For those few individuals with the plethora of questions regarding these matters, here's an idea: Go to Phase II. There you will see first hand the answer to a lot of your questions. After that, go to Columbus the weekend before Thanksgiving. There, others will be answered.
:angry:

Nice Idea, but isn't a forum a place to discuss and ask questions? Not when someone is competing for a place on the Allstar team and/or trying to win a Tournament after making it? :angry:

I didn't say to try to ask questions while someone is in the middle of a game. Most people are more than happy to answer questions and discuss different topics while they are waiting for their next match or after the tournament. I, myself, have always talked to people that had questions. And, as a matter of fact, I encourage those persons to attend "Tournament Trails" and/or try out for the All-Star team. I've even offered to meet someone at a "Trails Night" if they were concerned about not knowing anybody or the ropes. Come to Slam Jams on the eleventh, I'll talk to you. I'll be easy to find,too. I'll be the one pissing and moaning about being there on opening day of the NFL(don't reply that there is a game on Thursday night; that's not the real opening day).
;)

I still dont get how the hand picks are picked. I saw stuff on how it might be done. I saw lots of stuff about how it should be and get over it. But I ddn't see anything saying how the person or comittee decides this one is better then that one.
If its because of how good there darts are then what about the 2 men with the top scores and two women with 2d and 4th high scores? They all got scores higher than most of the ones that are on the hand pick list but there not good enough to be hand picked to?
If they dont use write ups what do they use?

From what I have gathered, one of the criteria is, that in order for a person to be eligible to be "hand picked" they must have been on the allstar team for the previous two years and scored over 1600(men) or 1200(women) in phase 1. So, someone that is not eligible may have scored higher in phase 1 than a hand pick player.
Believe me a high score in phase I does not always correspond to a great darter ;) .

In regards to the handpicks, Men do have to score above 1600 and Women need to score above 1000 to be considered as a handpick and also have been on the team the previous 2 years. Now, if you have been on the team the last 2 years, or more, and also a prior handpick knowing you only need 1600 to be considered, why would you continue to score more if you have hit that 1600? Also, it was commented that some people had scored higher than the people chosen as a handpick, if I may use Ray Skrovan as an example, he barely scored above 1600 with one try (I know that because I qualified him) and let someone tell me that he should not be a handpick because he didn't score as high or higher than someone not chosen as a handpick.

If you are not qualified to be a participant of the All Star team, then quit crying about it and practice and get better. All of the complaints I hear and read about seem to be from members that think way above their worth. :angry:

I had not read some of the newer responses before I posted a new opinion.

Darterdave has the right idea. Get better and quit complaining.

As for you, Dennis CDC# (fwhatever), obviously you know very little about Ray Skrovan. Hands down, he can probably beat you without darts. Quit crying about darts and special teams and continue to do what you seem to excell at (web things).

The tried and true axiom states : those that can do, do. those that can't, teach. From what I can see, those that can't do neither, BELLYACHE!

For everyone that are so damned concerned about how these so called prime spots are handed out. I suggest that you might consider going to some club meetings since your lives are so adversely affected.

If darts are life, then I'm afraid some of you are already dead.

Shoot well,

"D"

Hammerhead in no way did I disrespect Ray Skrovan. I never brought his name up. It was brought up after my previous post by "ale". I think you may have misread what I have said(typed) here in the forum. Also I am not crying and complaining about the way the allstars are picked. I have been trying to understand the way in which it is being done and has been done and discussing it in a forum thread that was started exactly for that reason. I suggest that you reread all of the posts, and stop insulting poeple you don't even know. As for me, I will continue to do what I want to do, including posting comments of my opinion on subjects in this public forum. It seems to me, that you are the one "bellyaching" about people discussing, critiqueing and voicing their opinions answering the ORIGINAL QUESTION on this thread.

An attitude like this does not help the percieved notion of favoritism in the allstar handpicking process. "If" others shared this attitude, I could see this scenerio in a meeting "Excuse me bronze thrower you don't throw well enough to have your opinion taken seriously so sit down and shut up, until you've practiced and gotten good enough, then we will listen to you"

As with most things in life, there is no perfect outcome to any process. Idle moaning about an issue will not yield any positive results for change (if necessary). One or more individuals should sit down with the CDC board, with proposed changes to the process of selecting and allstar team and see what can get done that way.

I personally do not think that there is anything wrong with trying to put the best team possible together to bring home a win. If that means picking some of the best players the area has to offer, so be it. Those players have been there and done that as well as made names for themselves in the darting community. As for the rest of the team who has to go through more grueling competition to qualify, man up! If you are hungry for the competition that darts provides, then you should welcome the challenge. If you want a hand out or think someone owes you something, maybe you should visit a soup kitchen or something. If someone can't handle the rigors of qualifying competition in Phase II, what do they expect to do in November when the title is on the line.

This year, I was unable to participate in Phase II, so I will look to next year. I was on last year's allstar team, I went through the competition and had fun in Columbus being part of a great team and event. I had never tried out for the team before and truthfully I was relatively new to darts. (couple of years) But I had the drive and hunger to make the team. I didn't get caught up in any politics or high school type sh*t, I did what I had to do to make the team...

...anyone can make the team, it is up to you to go out and get it. Don't expect anyone to roll out the red carpet and give it to you though.

Good luck to all members of the 2005 CDC Allstar team. Go down to Columbus and bring home the championship, Again!

All interested others, dedicate yourself to making next year's team, if it is something you really want you will find a way to get there.

CDC #89-04

Hi Cleveland,

Looking in from tha outside on this one. Again as a visiting darter, I might be able to present a few options to think about in this matter.

1) instead of playing "High Score" going into 301 mode and tracking points per dart averages on the men's and ladies' singles game in a round robin levels of each of your league divisions. and also doing another "Round Robin (the next day or another day soon following) for cricket format tracking "marks per round" and creating a S.P.R.E. ranking on the 60 games over the weekend. to determine your "All Star Team".

(2) establish a Singles tournament in a format where points per dart averages are kept and quality league write ups (for 170 out, 180, 7,8,9 marks Dead eye. and other quality awards) and added to any existing format used.

(3) or leave it how it is and let the membership decide at a general meeting.


Good Darts ;)
Brian Spieker
Albuquerque, NM