Okay, here is the big question for the army, that i think we do need to get clear now so we can move along.

We are now on 1.3, the army is very very different to the original 1.0, and this is due to everyones hard work, the admin team, and the members, for that you have (at least) my thanks.

We have come to a turning point in the army, things have changed and now it seems to be getting to the stage where it is a fully playable list, the big question, do we need anymore units in this army?

Are there any really big wholes which need filling in the army? Is there anything it still needs? We need to stop getting to the stage where someone comes up with an idea and we all say "Thats good, lets throw it in the list for now", if we continue to do this the army will become overloaded with things that 1. People will never use 2. Makes it look unproffesional.

Is there anything we already have in the army people feel we do not need? Cant see the point to sons of fire? The whole Crystal idea is wack? What do you think, as this is the sort of thing we need to start discussing now.

I think we need to look at the units we have now, decide if we need any more, if the answer is no, we really need to stop making units and start concentrating on getting the units we already have perfect. This can be done through both theory, and playtesting, but with this new online battles idea taking off playtesting is going to have a lot of influence on the list, as it should be, i feel.

Personally, as i look through the list i think that we dont need anything more inside the army. To me, this list represents the original angelic concept i had, an elitiest army of powerful warriors taking to battle, sweeping away the enemy with deadly efficency, but if they are halterd in the attack for just a moment, they suddenly become usless, like a rhino which has been halted.

I do not think the list needs any more units, in my opinion we need to stop adding anything new and take a look at what we have. I am starting to question the Crystal Kingdom, as i am beggining to see a lack of use for them, and they feel very much like "a bit on the side" rather then an entire civilisation along with the angels. I think each magic item needs to be looked at carefully and the magic system finally sorted out.

But what does everyone elese think? What is your opinion?

Your lord and master
GS

Ok, I am a fan now of just adding one big special rules monster who is overpirced so that he will be a for fun unit and not a game winning one. I think that and a couple of special characters are all that is missing from the list.

I don't think we need to add anything to the list but a few SPC's. The untis we have are great and I despise the idea of a large monster in a finesse army.

I am pretty happy with what we've got. I think maybe a few more choices are needed, but I'm not too sure. I highly dislike the idea of a large monster. We obviously need a few SPCs.

The largest problem I see is with the Crystal Kingdom. Now don't get me wrong, the rules are excelent. I just don't think it fits. The Crystal Kingdom represents the latest incarnation of something I've been fighting against since the 5th of May: the factioning of the army. I fought it and eventually won in the case of the original list. I fought it and eventually won in the case of Dark Angels. And I plan to fight it now as hard as possible. Why? I feel that this sort of thing is just bad for the army. It messes with the fluff. It makes the rules seem less well made because they are more sporadic (if you get what I'm trying to say there). It even makes the models and art look less uniform. It's just out of place.

Anyway, that's my 0.02. More to come.

By the way, I agree with GS, thank you, all you members! You really made this crazy idea of ours a roaring success.

Hmmm interesting question GS. I think that while we dont NEED anymore models, they will add flavour and give more choice to the army. If it is going to be a bigass overpriced model i think that comparing it to giants etc is not a good idea, start afresh with some concept sketches maybe, somethign totally new.

I like the idea of an angelic large creature, not necessarily even compareable to a giant but just something that is just fun rules wise like a giant is. I also think that we should bring back some sort of mount or war machine or something of the sort and I was not here during the making of the crystal beings but I do remember fighting with WP to stop the factioning of the list. If we get another crystal unit I will say no and will request that we do them as a possible faction list after we finish this one. Plus as WP said all is not so good with the rules of the crytal beings and all shall be revealed in due time.

WP you do hate everything i make and that paragraph proves it true first you hate the Dark angels which is reasonable then my SPCs, now you attack my cristal kingdom but i will fight them till the end also lots of people in the site suport it so i'm fine.

p.s. it dosent ruin fluff at all it gives the sons of fire a palace to reside and it maches in perfectly so nay :P

Most armies OD in one chategory or another. IE Skaven cores, DE rares, O&G....everything. I think we should have more specials, or another outlandish rare or two. Beasties.

i think crystal is okay but not great, we just need another rare and maybe special, and of course 3 special characters (all the new lists have 3 of the overpriced fatties on thrones) also vengeances need to either be cheeper or returned to their former cheesy glory, seriously they are like dryads, close combat skirmishers, but costing more and with less defence and attack, and same movement, take out blinding skin it does not fit anywhere in the fluff and give them one extra attack and make them 20 points is that too much too ask? even if you don't agree with me at least take out blinding skin, it is not fluffy and as they are skirmishers they are already good vs ranged, not only that but chaos does not have ranged weapons, (apart from thrown)

Yes, DA, I hate everything you hate.

All still in favor of Crystal please say "Aye!"

Nay!

aye- i REALLY like the idea, nothing more or less.

aye- i made it and i will fight for it

Seraph, in my playtests, vengeances have been perfect. Anything more is, as you say, cheesy.
---Baran

aye - I like the idea.

aye think it's okay....arr. We need a rare crystal....maybe a giant of some sort?!?!?

We could use another large monster kind of rare but I don't want it to be crystal.

Well, if it is Crystaline, then we'd have a character, core special and rare choices. Enough to suit up for an all crystaline army.

i think aye... but conditionally we do not need half the armies decent units being crystal, you should be able to theme it one way or an other and get a effective force, but if you make us to reliant on crystal specials and rares to make a good army then... nay

If there is enough to make another whole army from it then it should be bagged and made an appendix for later. I say if we have a big monster it should not be crystal, and I agree with what SA said.

Well, working on that logic Iron, the whole Forest Spirit section should have been left out and made into an appendix list for the Wood Elves. Lots of armies have factions within the lists. The aforementioned forest spirits, Skaven clans, the chaos powers, vampire count bloodlines, etc. I think the Crystal section adds a nice spin to the Angelic idea, as well as moving it away from traditional religious writings. It isn't really enough for a seperate list anyway, when all is said and done, it's just two units and a character upgrade.

As to whats missing, I would say a war machine/big monster of some sort. Senat, Abalim, spectral, whatever, you know the sort of thing, an ancient being/artifact of the Angels possessed of incredible holy power.

I was a fan of the abalim, but I don't know what you guys did to it.

but then we are stuck halfway, the crystals have the good units but not enough to be an army? where is the sense in that? (p.s. the forest spirits are there because they are fluffy and make up a large part of the wood elf pop, the crystal is not covered enough in the fluff for its units... and it is only like a 1/6 of the seraph pop or at least the fluff hints it is... either get more explanatrory fluff or keep as it is with NO crystal monsters...it is already possible to have a crystal army with heroes core special (you can do crystal powers convertion) and of course crystal choir (with crystal chimes or something)

I agree with SA, he is right in his points here.