Your thoughts? I like it :D But it probably needs pts costing a bit better, i hate costing things like this.

(Note: this guy was inspired originally by Rouge-Gladiators Pic from Diablo 2, so model wise it may end up looking like that except in an upright Sarcophagus and its arms crossed, think Egyptian king pose)

Senat
-Ancient even amongst the ranks of the armies of angels the Senat are truly unique beings. Only 1 Senat was brought to battle in the war against the daemons from the southern wastes. Its power once the ancient Sarcophagi were opened was un stoppable. It destroyed all around it, eventually the angels feared it may turn on them and were forced to seal the creature up again.

What the Senat are is unknown; perhaps they are Angels who have been driven to insanity, perhaps they are a collection of daemonic entities bound to a single object and forced to the Angels will. The only two depictions of the Senat show the same thing, a being utterly covered in Robes, even its face and around it Dozens of tendrils of light flailing around in the air attacking and slaughtering all around it.

Rare Units
0-1
---------M---Ws---Bs---S---T---W---I---A---Ld
Senat---0-----3-----0----4---8----4---1---1----10

Cost/Pts: 720

2 rare slots

Weapons and Armour: Massive tendrils of light that will burn and destroy all around it! (Gulp)

Special Rules:

Entombed: The Senat is entombed and carried to battle by four guardians, It will only be released in the most dire of situations as it is a mighty entity that is feared even by the Angels themselves they say…

While the Senat is entombed treat is as a unit of 4 angels who do not suffer from instability and may never charge into combat. If charged the unit will always strike last and if they win the combat they may not pursue.

If the Senat is not released during the game you will gain half his points value in victory points as the angels have not found it necessary to unleash it unto the world.

Lingering Fear: Even the angelic guardians are in constant fear of the burden they carry, in order to open the sargohigus, they must pass a LD test at Ld 8. If they fail they refuse to oppen the sarcoupgi this turn, and must wait till next turn till they try again.

Horror Unleashed: Once the Senat is unleashed it stays in the Sarcophagus and must devour the souls of others to use its power; it will instantly devour the four angelic guards around it providing it with enough energy for four points of energy.

The amount of power a Senat can unleash is completely dependant on the amount of souls it devours (undead still count as souls as the weak magic that keeps them on this plain of existence still nourishes the Senat.) The more souls it devours are counted by the amount of creatures it kills a turn (note, this is Kills, not wounds), for each kill it gains a single point of power. This power may be spent as it wishes, as it goes up the power list though the stronger powers cost more souls.

If the Senat does not devourer any souls than it may still use one point on a power.

Using any sort of magic may not block Powers; the only way to stop the Senat is to destroy it, which is no easy task.

Start a new count of power each and every turn, using the amount of kills it made in its previous turn the amount of power it posses now.

Powers

-Dark Light
1pt. D6 S2 on one enemy unit within 24” as the Senat’s tendrils flay about wildly absorbing the energy of those around it.

-Wrath of the Ancients
1pt. The Senat transforms itself into an entity far beyond any mortal, for the turn it uses this power the Senat increases its Ws S and A characteristics to 5.

-Darkness comes
2pt. All within close vicinity to the Senat become blinded by darkness making it hard to even see, if within 18” of a Senat models must halve there Ws, Bs, and I characteristics.

-Betrayal in death
3pt. The Senat writhes with energy as it curses an enemy unit with the curse of undeath. Allies of the enemy rises back up to strike down their comrades in life.

This power can be cast on an enemy unit within 24” of the Senat. Any model in the effected unit that is killed during the combat may make a single attack at its base strength value after all attacks between sides are done. Any kills caused increase the Angelic sides combat resolution score, if there is a mixture of models (eg: A character in the unit) all attacks must be made against regular models in the unit first, before against the additional model. If it is a case of something such as Ungors and Gors the Senat may decide which to attack.

-Pain
3pt The Senat unleashes its pain through its tendrils against enemy units that dare stray near. All enemy units within 12” of the Senat take D6 S4 hits.

-Oblivion
4pt The Senat cast an enemy unit into the depths of hell where they are pummelled to death by unknown forces, far greater than any mortal. Nominate one enemy unit within 18” The enemy unit sustains 2D6 S6 hits.

-Solar Flare
5pt The Senat empowers itself with the light of the sun to raise its tendrils to the heat of the very surface of the Sun. The Tendrils lash about wildly scorching enemy who come near to them. All enemy units within 12” Suffer D6 S6 hits

-Super Nova
6pt the Senat uses the very energy of the sun to cause a massive wave of burning hot energy to cover the entire enemy army throwing them into agony. Any infantry unit with unit strength 10 or higher are hit by the wave, they take D6 S5 hits.

-Grand Cross
7pt the Senat uses the energy of the planets to fire an all-powerful ray of raw power into the enemy ranks, this annihilates anything in its path. The Senat counts as firing a S10 Bolt thrower, with a range of 48”, it may penetrate through more than one unit if in range and in the straight line of the Senat. Remember to reduce strength for every model the Bolt goes through.

-Final Reckoning
14pt the Senat uses its energy to throw thousands of Comets onto the battlefield utterly destroying the enemy with his ethereal powers, this is what the Angels fear more than anything. This is why they are so rarely brought to battle, the Final reckoning, the attacks has meant the fall of entire civilisations.

This power may only be used once per a game, it instantly summons 3D6 Comets of Cassandora (see lore of heavens). For each comet roll a dice after it has been placed, if a 1 is rolled the enemy may place it where they wish instead. Each comet follows the normal rules for comets and cannot be dispelled.

Ancient Terror- The Senat is a horror beyond horrors and causes Terror in the hearts of the enemy. As a result the Senat will always cause Terror to all enemy unit even if they have passed the Terror test.

Immovable- Once unleashed the Senat may not move.

Ethereal presence- The Senat has the power to melt arrows and cannon balls thrown at it. As a result any attack made of S5 or less the senat gains a 6+ ward save. S6-S8 it gains a 5+ ward save. S9 or 10 it gains a 4+.

All who wish for there death i will gladly obey....: At the start of there Angels players turn the angel player must roll 2D6, on a double 1 or a double 6 for that turn the Senat gains 2pts of power and becomes controled by the opponet, he may choose to use the 2pts of power how he wishes, the nect turn for angels the Senat will count as having made 0 kills. This means he only gains 1pt of power to start with.

i like it, but maby the comets could scatter 5D6 and bounce of the table edges before they land resembling the nature of the comets.

and i'm assuming its 'halve' their Ws, Bs, and I

also maby the carrier angels must take a test to open the sarcophagus to resemble the fear of it being opened

Hehehehe..
I'd love to try that comet thing some time. It'd distroy everything on the battlefield, but it'd be fun. This thing needs a rule saying it can only be taken in 3000+ battles. Also, yes, the handlers should take a leadership test.

Wow, im impressed, i thought i would get a lot of "No no, its terribly undercosted" or "its a load of rubbish" guess like people think its ok...

I have also added the Ld test rule.

Yes that would make sense for the angels because really which angel in their right mind would want to open it just to have their soul consumed. You also don't mention it but I assumed that it can be opened at any point on the angel player's turn whenever he wishes, or is it the movement phase, etc. or is it a random event like reserves where you roll for it each turn.

It IS a load of rubbish, but it's also great fun. 3D6 comets? Who could ever resist that?

Good question, After movement phase but before shooting. I think that sounds acceptable, thats when all its attacks should be made as well.

I agree with woodpecker on that one but according to the rules it wold be hard to cast that one as each turn you have to start over with power points that means that the turn prior to that one you would need to have killed 14 models with him alone. It would be rather amusing though. :rolleyes:

Meh, i didnt make it with the mind of it turning into a load of rubbish. I thought of it as a Hellcannon and damn i forgot one of the rules one sec while i add it.

that helps a bit I guess

Even if it's a really insane model, I think the general fluff and appearance of the Senat are too cool to pass up, and as such, I'm going to make a sketch of it..

Okay, whys it rubbish, it has a high pts cost. It can turn on its owners, it has a massive comet attack Why on earth is it rubbish?

(btw, i was considering making it a single D6 and on a 1 he turns against the angels, but i thought that this would mean at least once a battle it would turn on its owners. Not the best buy for the army.)

I just think the 3 D6 comets is a bit overboard. I understand that this is suppose to be the ultimate attack of the Senat, but, it should not be such a powerful force that it can single handedly win the game. I realize the Senat is going to have to do alot to get that many points too, but... the attack is just sick.

on another note, what style do you want this Angel to look like? Namely, how do you want the sarcophagus to look? Egyptian, or another style?

it is really annoying to put up any concept designs i make (due to my lack of a WORKING digi cam, cheap peace of crap i brought, lasted about a week then broke) Anyway, i was thinking it looks Egyption but with the robes guy from the second concept of yours, in a bit more robes and inside the Sarcougpagus) the outide should be decorated from symbols of ancient note, so probably not Heirogliphs but things that look as if they are meant to bind the Senat.

Sounds kind of confusing, but i think i know what im talking about.

oh khaine help us! imagine rolling 3 sixes with the comet thing! and then rolling a one for every comet! your army would be soooo dead! yeah, rather powerful, but the high cost and 2 rare slots justifies it! i like it!

Okay, look at it this way it is really hard for him to rack up 14 kills in the first place, and even if you do, there is a signifigant chance a lot of your army is going to be taken out along with the enemys army.

It is supposed to be a doomsday sort of attack but, when you think about it he has other uses as well, and its a kind of last resort.

It's got so many special rules and such a high cost, it's just like a STank and a half all over again. Something that cost less than half its current cost with less than half the current special rules would probably be much more desirable.

But 3D6 comets! I think it does need to be simplified, but the whole concept is GREAT. I love it. *Starts worshipping GS*
---Baran

he is strong S10 bolt thrower 2d6 S6 hits god he is good but what if you run out of points(killing wise) not likely but then he would be a 720 pts statue and then that won't be helpfull

If you go through with this model though I would make it only toughness 7 that way str 4 models can possibly hurt it on a 6+ where as now even str 4 models can do nothing.

I think he should get one free point per turn. Otherwise, he could turn into a statue (and would if the opponent takes control of him, IIUC).

Well once an opponent gets him and you get him back he starts with one point which means if he is take towards the middle of the game he is going to have very few points for the rest of the game making his point cost not worth what was spent. It is a risky buy but I could see how it would be fun to play with in larger battles.

I love senat, but even T7 is way too high. We want him to be able to be hurt by not only heroes. As of now, only Chaos and Orcs and Lizard basic dudes can hurt him (talking about base strength of core, so cav and GW warriors can hurt him, but SHHHH)
T6 seems appropriate, with maybe 4/5 wounds?
---Baran

It looks awsome, it is very powerful but also costs alot and can turn on its owners. Plus, 3d6 comets is way to good to pass up. I mean a lizardmen player placed a comet and destroyed half of my army, and a quarter of his.

So is responding with another overcosted, overpowered model really the right answer? Sure we could make rules for Nagash and have him cost 3000 points, but the thing about Warhammer is scale. Nagash doesn't belong any more than this guy; it's not necessarily that the statline is inadequate, it's that using the entire reach of said statline (like going up to 7 8 and 9 in stats) is not what we're looking for. Taking a look at like-minded models even like the greater daemons, they don't have have these kinds of abilities and they cost 70-120 points less depending on which daemon it is. If you really want Senat in this list (which I do not think it should be, except MAYBE as a special character), it should be much less powerful.

You just made a very good suggestion. Based on the fluff, and the power of this thing, it should be a Special Character.

I was more hoping to illustrate the fact that scale is important to keep in mind, but yeah I guess special character works too.

If it is made a special character with those rules though it might even have to be opponents permission only and can't be taken in less then 3000 point battles.

The whole list is opponent's permission, remember.

Umm, i have said he gains one point a turn if he makes no kills anyway, im sure i did.

Im working on another possible Hero choice (not with the powers of the Seant mind you) so stay tuned.

Waiting excitedly. I'm going to go through all of the Choirs and say what I think they should be. Also, hopefully I can finish the Compendium today.

I think it's awesome! No rubbsih if you ask me...I think warhammer need som super ultra powerful insane dead angel thingies! And as everyone else have said...kinda hard for that fella (even through his power) to kill 14 models in one turn, and besides, what peahead would voluntarily want to go in range of that guy? (he was immovable right?), but otherwise...Love it!

Eactly, if anything he is a 700pt flank holder (not quite the ideal spend, but it works for me :))

Bump!

I want to see more opinions on this :)

Hmm. Well it wasn't used in the list, but I think it should be developed as a special character.

Agreed, but it could still use a bit of work.

Cant we have one insanily powerful thing? Please with a slice of Limburger on the top?

Nah, he does need to be toned down a bit but i dont know how.

Should i make it easier for him to turn on his handelers?

As he is a special character i think he should have the high Toughness value as he is supposed to be an impossibly powerful creature.

Your opinions of what i should re-write?

i know how you feel forced to tone down insanly powerfull characters just find something to tone

duck me! well! its certainly interesting. i think if you want to keep it anything like as powerful as it is then it MUST be a special character. especially considering the fluff you wrote about it before the rules. sorry to spoil the fun, but the comet thing is just ridiculous. and the whole thing of having to keep track of kills and points makes it very complicated. so, my suggestion is this: reduce its points, and give it a rule like the evocation of death for the black coach back in 5th. i.e. give it an attack, say any unit within LoS takes d6 S4 hits. after it has killed X people the attack gets more powerful, after killing Y more powerful again, and so on. so it could go from d6 s4 to d6 s4 with no armour saves, then to 2d6 s4, then to 2d6 s4 with no armour saves etc. something like that anyway. i like the idea of them having to take a LD test to use it, it could be simpler by just saying it has to take a LD test each turn to shoot. i think the not firing for half VPs should go. giving it a flat 5+ ward would be easiest. also by toning it down you could get rid of the double 1/6 rule.

doing a lot of what i just said would make it a viable choice for the army as a non-special character choice i feel. i def think its far too complicated as it is.

I know I have to agree with evis on almost all of his points there. Good thinking.