I was thinking about Holy power earlier for my upcoming playtest no reason whatsoever, and I've come up with a number of suggested changes.

1) Change Wings of Light from being a Remains in Play spell to a normal spell, or a Lasts One Turn spell. Why is it even RiP in the first place? Your opponent gets two chances to dispel it before it's even useful to you, and frankly I don't see its purpose as a RiP spell, unless you've cast it on your 1,000-point-Cherubai-plus-Cherub-plus-BSB unit and intend to throw them around the battlefield, in which case I think you should stop playing cheesily and start playing strategically. To me, it seems that it would suit the Angels better as a once-off spell, to get a surprise charge or get behind enemy lines ... something sneaky and unexpected.

2) Now, here's a bigger change, concerning Remains in Play spells in general. The Power Level penalties to the Lore of the Ancients were designed to reflect the chances of a spell being gotten off without dispel by a level 1 wizard in the turn that they are cast. Thus, a level 1 wizard has (as close as is possible) the same chances of getting a spell with a difficulty of 12+ off without it being dispelled as a Virtue has of getting Shining Light off without it being dispelled. However, what the penalties do not factor in is later turns. Even if you're casting Shining Light with a Throne, the average power level is only 5-6, which is not exactly difficult to dispel in later turns compared to, say, Comet of Cassandora where you need to roll at least 12. Our RIP spells got inadvertently nerfed^*.

The solution? As I see it, the solution is to have the Power Level Penalties apply only in the turn in which the spell is cast. Thus, the chances of casting it in the first turn are the same and its power level goes up to somewhere near normal.

You might think that this would overpower Thrones, but I don't think so. A Throne needs at least 6 Holy Power die to be good value for money and, given the price of our units and the amount of units with a usual unit strength of less than 10, this isn't very easy. A Throne will still be casting a maximum of only two spells succefully with an average Power Level of 10.5, so I think that this change would not overpower our magic in any way.

Thoughts on this? And, as for that playtest, well ... let me say that it's still a possibility.

Thragka

^*Yes, by AoA and myself. So sue us.

1. Wings of Light is RiP? ~Checks~ Oh right... good call on that. Actually, it says Remains in Play, but the description contradicts that, so we'll just remove the RiP part from it, and it's sorted. Wow, I've been proofreading for spelling, but I've been missing that glaring mistake.

2. Oddly enough, I've been considering the problem of RiP spells recently, and realised that there aren't actually any rules for them. Normally you dispel it in later turns at the base casting value, but our spells don't have base casting values, so there is no actual ruling for how to dispel them in later turns. For this reason, I was considering simply stating the "base casting value" that must be beaten, much like the Ogre Kingdoms use Power Level 7 (since Gut Magic casting value varies).
Another point I was considering is whether Virtues and Thrones should use the same "base casting value", or whether Thrones should have a higher one.

Don't say that! They'll do it! :P

AoAlgebra :lol:

Yay! this fourm still lives! :D

It would make sense, I think, to let thrones have a higher value, since they are supposed to be more powerful.


Oh, and:

See you in court :P

Come get us ... (summons lawninja Cherubai)

As it turns out, I had confused Shining Light with Seraphaal's Last Wish, but my point still stands.

Hmm ... well, as Seraphaal's Last Wish is our only RiP spell, these would be my suggestions:

1) Set the "basic casting value" as 10, as this was the difficulty of the spell before Holy Power was introduced.
Pros: Uh ... it makes the rules simpler?
Cons: It means that if your opponent has no dispel dice left, you automatically cast a RiP spell with a high BCV to beat as long as you have a single Holy Power die, and it makes no distinction between Virtue and Throne.

2) As I semi-suggested earlier, have the BCV be whatever the roll is for determining the Power Level, not including the modifier. (Originally I was under the impression that you have to beat the roll made, not the BCV ... just shows you how much I read the rulebook.)
Pros: It means that you only get a payoff equal to the power that you put in and that the power level should vary from Virtue to Throne - after all, a Lord-level wizard can cock up as much as a Hero-level one.
Cons: It still means that you can get off RiP spells automatically for at least one turn, although it is harder to keep them going than with any other option and I still don't think we have a lot of power dice available to us.

3) Set two BCVs; one for Virtues, one for Thrones.
Pros: The distinction between Virtues and Thrones is clear.
Cons: It's still easy to get off RiP spells without devoting too many dice unless additional restrictions are placed.

Personally, I'd prefer option 2.

I agree with 2. I agree it wouldn't really make sense for a spell to be maintained at a higher power than it was originally cast. As you said, it could also be abused.

AoAlgebra :lol:

Agree with 2, was thinking about before I read Thragka's post.

I'll sue them too.