We have always had a bus to go to Canada for the Challenge of the Lakes Tournament, we have had some people say that they would rather drive there
on their own. Last year we only had 21 of the 38 people that went ride the bus.

Some have said that they would rather have two nights of hotel paid insted of the bus. Would you rather have the rooms on Friday and Saturday or on Saturday and Sunday?

Tony,

For some reason, it wouldn't let me vote on the poll. Not sure why. Personally, I would rather have it with the bus ride up and back. I really don't care to drive that far on the way home. I think most people make a weekend out of it with other stops, like Niagra and hit the casinos. Not my cup of tea, but I'm just one person.

Dboy

I also can not vote I will have Tony Check it out - this is the first time that we are using the poll.

Members can now vote :D

before voting can you show us the cost differences for the league and the indivual?if there are any.

I do not have a per person price, the Bus was $1700.00 plus the room for the driver. The Rooms are around $95.00 per room we put 2 people in a room.
we take 36 people so we would book 18 rooms.

It is about $1710.00 for the rooms - so it is about the same price either way.

I am torn, I like not having to drive home Sunday Night and just letting the bus driiver worry about the road.

The ride up there can get a little crazy.

I love the hotel that we stay in - it is wonderful!

But then I have people asking would we stay Friday and Saturday or Saturday and Sunday. Leaving on Monday Morning?

If we leave Friday it would have to be after 6:00pm (that would be as early as I thik we could leave. We would not get there until 11 or 12 anyway.

Thanks for fixing us Dennis - can you call me at the LEDA office 440-975-9775

Guess I cant vote til I know whos on the bus.
Oh that Dusty's riding the bus...Ill drive then....lol

as long as your (dusty) not driving the bus ( though we would get there faster)

I choose option #4 give me $75 Ill drive and house myself (j/k I do like the hotel we stay at). I do think that if you take the bus option away youll have more worries about people not showing up. Cars breaking down, border crossing, traffic, running late, no license (maybe these are just my problems) and so on. At least you know the people that ride the bus or stay at the hotel will be there.

What's the date of the Challenge of the Lakes?

It is the 1st weekend in October in Canada this year.

[FONT=Geneva][SIZE=14][COLOR=orange]

To whom it may concern I dont really know who to contact or tell other people to contact and may just be to soon.

But I have a lot of people asking me when the Tournaments for Challenge of the Lakes are..... I mean the one for the guys who compete and the winner of the two that we usually have are automatically on the team.

If and when someone knows can they post it here so that eeveryone can see and i can tell anyone who asks me.

Thanks for your help regarding this and can't wait for the Challenge of the Lakes weekend.

Vickie

The great and powerful Toma has spoken and decided from above that there would be no more tournaments for the Challenge of the Lakes. the Great Toma Giveth and The Great Toma Taketh Away.

Tony, you should be ashamed of yourself. You know it wasn't Toma but a good decision made by two very capable people running the challenge to make the most money for the challenge. As a member, you should want the most money raised, especially since we are going to canada this year. Each tournament turnout has been less than optimal. The challenge makes MORE money when everyone continually tries out to keep a high score. Everyone also has an equal chance.

committees are appointed by the president to run their respective areas. If BOD members and other committee chairs continually try overrule the decisions of those volunteers, you will probably not have many good volunteers in the future.

I'm done now. I'm sure this may get a lot of replies, but hopefully you guys know where I'm coming from. You're a great guy, but that comment wasn't necessary.

Kim

when will a current list of tryout scores be posted?

Kim's reasoning makes perfect sense. I even looked up one of the past spreadsheets with the tryout scores and number of tryouts. I can't imagine the number being higher than what it was if the tournament tryouts still in. I think what we're doing is fine. We do have to remember that the idea of the tryouts is to raise money for the trip. Otherwise, the top players would just be hand picked, and we're done with that.

I was initially a fan of the tournaments, but the problem became that players wouldn't try the 60 darts (guilty), and just wait for the tournaments, and the turnouts didn't seem too great the past couple of years (I could be wrong, but I remember only 10-12 players at best, which isn't really all that great).

If we think that the Top Score method isn't good, maybe we can go to what it use to be, which was a three time average, and each tryout after that was towards your average:

Score 1: 1056
Score 2: 1347
Score 3: 1211
Average: 1204.7
Score 4: 1351
Average: 1241.3
Score 5: 1193
Average: 1231.6

And so on. Just a thought.

What if we had the tournament the first night of tryouts. You got one shot to make it that way, then its the 60 dart tryouts after that. This way people can't wait for a tournament during the tryout period. We may even get more darters to show up for the tournament if they know this is their only shot.

That's definitely another option. My real point was that we tend to get into doing the same old same old for the only reason being that's what we've been doing. I also have no problem with going back to what was more successful. I just think that there's a clash (for lack of a better term) between the people who have been involved since the beginning of the league and newer players, with neither side wanting to budge. I don't believe that it's healthy for the league.

Say what you will about raising money. The truth is we've raised more than $3000 outside of tryouts just at the banquets in he last 2 years. Not to mention all the 50/50s that have gone entirely to the all star fund. I do understand that the all star teams have not had the interest over the last couple years that they did in the past, but the lack of try outs is not due to the tournaments. I guess we'll find that out this year though. I guess it's just too bad for those that enjoyed the tournaments. Also, anyone that believes you are going to get a stronger team from a 60 dart tryout than a tournament tryout format is sorely mistaken.

The Challenge of the Lakes is a tournament that is supported by fundraising. We do have some money in the all-star account - with that said some of the cost that we pay this year because we are away is:
Rooms -- 18 to 20 rooms -- run around $2200.00
Bus -- Last year was $1700.00 -- With gas price's right now the quotes are higher.
Team Shirts -- 32 to 36 shirts at $20.00 each around $720.00

Some of the above cost is off-set by the team fee and the tryouts

The directors of the Challenge - made a decision not to hold tournaments because, due to the accounting of the last few years - we raised more money with the try-outs only. They did not sit down and say lets not have tournaments, to see if we can make a few people mad - with all options weighed - it was a money decision because in the end they are the ones that are responsible Barb and other members of this league started the classic about 20 years ago as a friendship match with the Canadians. Barb has been involved in this tournament since the start. They may not always do things that is going to make everyone happy - their goal is to do what is best of the Challenge and the League.

The comments from Tony is his view and not that of the Board of Directors as a whole.

Try-out can be done at the following locations and Times:
Friday Night - Seaway - 6:00pm to 8:30pm
Saturday Morning - Seaway - 10:00am to 1:00pm
Sunday - During trails at Lino's
Tuesday night - Lost Nation Sports Park - 7:00pm to 8:30pm
***if trails is cancelled then try-outs will not be held - or they will not be held on
Holidays.

You can try out any where there is one of the people that are okayed to take try-outs.

If the above times do not work for you - please call the office 440-975-9775 and we will schedule a time an a sanctioned location for you to try out.

We will be holding a try-out night July 27th at Seaway - from 6:30om to 10:00pm
We will stop taking names at 9:00pm.

Thanks,
you

My letter to BOD regarding the challenge team:



At this time, please remove me from the Challenge of the Lakes team. I feel that I cannot support this club in the manner I have for the last 25 years, due to the most recent vote of the BOD to overturn the decision Barb and I made on disciplinary actions. I openly will tell you, this is my "vote of no confidence" in a Board that has told me (1), to my face, (2), in telephone conversation and (3), in email, that our decision will be supported, even after the reconsideration that was requested. The only member true to his word is Phillip, but unfortunately, his position is as a non-voting President. It's obvious to those that have been involved in this club long enough to see, that such decision was based purely on personal sentiment for those parties involved, spearheaded individually for undisclosed reasons and not for the betterment of the LEDA. I do not wish to be associated or allied with a group or individuals whose personal gains are more important than the league welfare. The Board is the heart of the league and this action is not representative of the original beliefs and ideas the LEDA was founded upon.

Furthermore, I know I expressed this previously, as lifetime members, Barb and I did not come to this disciplinary decision frivolously or lightly. We took quite a few factors into consideration, but most importantly, the reputation of LEDA and the Challenge and we're not willing to have it tarnished. That reputation also reflects directly on the Board Of Directors.

Also, this appeal procedure seems to have some undisclosed, secretive issues. First, I was never asked for my testimony on what I saw FIRST HAND, along with any feedback I received from other witnesses. As co-captain, I would have thought this would be a critical part of the decision process. This, coupled with the actions of one party in the past, was never brought into consideration by the Board. Phillip was the only member concerned enough to ask me for my input and my thoughts. How can a hearing be handled and be untainted, without gathering all the facts? Second, why was the committee chairperson not informed that such a hearing and decision was going to be made in her absence? These actions are far from procedures of an open and honest board, or at minimum, a single individual driving this to such a decision.

Since there are almost 3 weeks before the Challenge, I do not see any issues with my decision to relinquish my spot on the team.

Regards,
Bill Toma

Posted with permission from author, Denny Reim:

Posted with permission from author, Gary Hull:

I am getting calls that there is not a challenge team --THERE IS A CHALLENGE TEAM - Bill Toma and Barb Tekavec have decided to resign as challenge directors - But there is still a Challenge team.

The board has asked me to post them for them.

Over the past two weeks, the LEDA board of directors has been required to make some unpopular decisions in response to an incident occurring at the Lake Erie Classic. After multiple meetings, hours of discussions and review of the published Rules and Bylaws, our interpretation was that we have equitably and equally enforced those rules.

There have been accusations and replies publicly posted by some members who have not heard all the facts. Should those members continue to make their decisions based on incomplete facts and continue to hold their opinion, that is their choice. If they or any other member would like to have all the facts, they are free to contact any a board member, and we will provide what we feel is the entire picture.

We will not enter into arguments on this Forum. The board decided last year that when this Forum was opened, it would only monitor, and not post to it, since it was opened for members to post their comments and questions, not a place to argue, negotiate or otherwise dispute the operations of the LEDA.

Contrary to what we have been accused of, we believe that our actions and decisions were made in the best interest of ALL members of the LEDA, being equal and fair to not only the senior members, but also the future core members of our club. We deeply regret the misunderstanding of our decisions but will continue to direct the LEDA toward the future.

To All LEDA Memebers

I have seen alot of stuff but this is all crazy. What happened at the Classic has been taken care of and I truly believe that the board is capable of making the right decision.

I know pretty much the whole story and all who was involved and I feel the decision is a good one. I know a few people will be mad that I am saying this but that is why we vote in a board. And on a more personable note why do we have to put this stuff on the forum when actually if you werent there you dont know what happened and some of you are just supporting your friends view, which is great that is what friends are for but wouldnt that fall under personal influences that your saying the board did.

I enjoy throwing in LEDA and have come to know quite a few people and respect all of them. You do have your opinions and that is great but lets not ruin it for other people especially new people because things did not go the way you wanted it. I am sure people will think what they want about me posting my opinion but hang in there Board your doing great and we WILL have fun at the Challange no matter what anyone says.

Sincerely
LU LU

To All:

I was asked for my opinion on this matter a couple of times over the past week or so, and declined because I wanted to make sure I phrased everything properly. I wanted to make sure that I had thought everything through and avoided a knee-jerk reaction.

Usually I give the board good marks for their decisions, and they will always have my respect, because it’s a thankless job and I honestly feel that they have the good of the club intended.

This time I have to respectfully disagree. I feel the board dropped the ball on this.

I have a problem with the board’s decision on this for two reasons.

This is not because I feel it is unfair. Unfair decisions are a part of life, something we all deal with, and I can deal with whatever decision is made.

This is not because the decision is unpopular. Being on the board is not something you do for attention and praise. Making unpopular decisions is something that everyone regrets doing. I have been on both ends of these in my life. It happens, you move on.

This is not because of the fate of the Challenge team. I have other issues with that which will be saved for another day. I will say that moments like this are part of why I don’t participate anymore.

This is not because of the parties involved. I’ve known them all for several years now, and have no intention of playing favorites because that doesn’t accomplish anything. Whatever decision was made I have to stand by, whether I like it or not.

One reason is because two committee chairpersons’ decision was undermined. What’s the point of having them in charge if the board is just going to make a decision to overturn theirs? How is this a good policy for us as a club to have? Please come be involved, as long as you agree with us? That’s the message I’m seeing. I know that it isn’t the intent of the club, but that’s what is coming across, and I’m not the only one seeing it. The committee heads came to a decision, were asked to reconsider, thought about it, discussed it, then stood by their initial decision. When an appeal was made, they were not asked for their side of it, then the board decided not back them. This was wrong. The board should have been behind them.

The second is for the larger picture of our league as a whole. If we are at another location for the Classic next year, that will be 3 different locations in 3 consecutive years. I don’t see how this is a good thing. Our behavior at events does not just reflect the league, but darters in general. Venues are not going to want a group of obnoxious drunks running around their place acting like 4-year-olds for an entire weekend, no matter what amount of money their making. The Buckeye Open in Columbus has the same weekend every year at the same venue for who knows how many years, and they draw a hell of a lot more people than we do. Yet, incidents like this don’t seem to happen down there. I am no angel by any stretch of the imagination, but I do believe that some members do get carried away with having a good time. In my opinion, the board had an opportunity set a proper example of how to handle such incidents, and to display to our members that such behavior will not be tolerated. One of the parties was punished, and while he is a friend of mine, I felt the punishment was fair. That example should have been carried throughout.

Both members that resigned from their have been members of the club for 20+ years, and have held those positions for many years. Both are lifetime members based on their dedication to the club. This should be alarming to all of us who love the club and the game of darts. The fact that two other lifetime members showed their disdain for it should be equally alarming. They are people who love the game probably more so than any of us, given their tenure and efforts put forth throughout the years. I understand that times change and things roll along, but we shouldn’t forget our past and how everything got started. We better wake up. Rome isn’t burning yet, but it’s a matter of time before it’s blazing.

Dan Boyce #4444

Several years ago i was asked to work brackets at the Lake Erie Classic and then a couple years ago i was asked to run the tournament, in each case i always asked for total control. That was the only way i would do it, if there was a problem it was on me, if things went well i took credit. [most of you know me, so of course i took credit]. I have to believe that if i would have made a decision that i thought was fair and correct and the B.O.D overuled me then i would have stepped down immediatly. I have heard several different descriptions of what this is all about and i know that not everyone will agree on what exactly happened. However i do know that the B.O.D. did step in and over rule the challenge directors. I dont know who is wrong or right but i do know that if i played on the challenge team it would go against what i fought for in the past. Because of this i am requesting that i be removed from the challenge team. This will probably make some of you happy but i hope you all have fun and play good darts.


Tim Pittsenbarger L.E.D.A. #915

I've been asked my opinion on this whole thing with Bill & Barb and personally I wasn't going to get involved. But my FRIEND, Diana, is feeling so bad right now that I started looking at all your postings and I think you all need to reconsider your remarks. You are hurting a lot of people. Iwas at the Classic working. I did not see what happened on Friday night. I do know that:::
A. Tony Neal was Classic director
B. He pushed Tim Gamble on Friday night and was relinquished his duty as director
C. Tim Gamble's mother ran into registration and tossed some money down
D. Craig Lemonin took over as Tournament Director

What I don't know or understand is: How did Bill & Barb get involved since this was the Classic Tournament and not the Challenge???????

I would like to ask Bill the following question:

Why would you directly involve another dart-league in the internal squabbles of the
LEDA?
Could not play in their sandbox under their rules - so try and destroy it?

Mike Orav
Voks Darts

I am posting this as a member of this league for 20 years – my LEDA # is 322 – I am also posting as the office manager of the Lake Erie Dart Association – this is all me and not posted for or from the Board.

According to the code of conduct:
Code of Conduct/ Waiver of Liability Agreement
Bylaws: Article VI, Section 3
“A member may be terminated or restricted by a majority vote of the B.O.D. if such member/membership creates disharmony or behaves in such a way that is disruptive to order and discipline.”
Information, Rules & Regulations Handbook: Section E, Code of Conduct
1. All members are subject to LEDA Board of Directors approval.
2. All league members are expected to conduct themselves in a courteous manner. Good sportsmanship is the key factor for ALL LEDA events.
3. ANY player or team who causes injury to anyone or who willfully destroys property may be automatically suspended and/or expelled from the league at the full discretion of the Board of Directors and/or Grievance Committee.
4. Remember, we are all representing the LEDA and promoting the League and the good sport of darts.

Barb and Bill stated that the players were removed for a code of conduct violation – ONLY THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS CAN RESTRICT A MEMBER FOR A CODE OF CODE VIOLATION – Did Bill and Barb ask the Board to remove the players from the All-Star team – NO THEY JUST DID IT – they had no authority to remove a player in the first place without asking the board.

The Board only went by the code of conduct and the by-laws that were set forth by the lifetime members and the founders of this league set many years ago.

I have been the office manager since February of 2002 – There has been 67 board meetings, I have missed 2 of those meetings, the people that are posting about how concerned they are about the league and how poorly the board of directors are running this league, have maybe attended 2 of those 67 meetings, how concerned could they really be? If they were that concerned they would have attended more of the board meetings. I understand that some members are supporting their friends, but to slam the board without knowing facts and throwing the by-laws out the window is not fair or the best for the league. There are elections every year for 2nd vice and secretary and every other year for 1st Vice and the President, if you have felt that it was that bad why have none of you ran for an office? Don’t want to give up that much free time to volunteer for a thankless job, where you will never please everyone?

The members of this board have been in place for most of those five years. They have supported all directors, not one decision that was made by a Director in the last five years has been overturned (that I can remember) until now. They even supported Bill and Barbs decision to remove the tournaments as a way to try out for the Challenge (they heard many complaints from members about that) but they supported their directors. I guess as long as the board agrees with you things are okay, THIS WAS NOT A MATTER OF SUPPORT – IT WAS MATTER OF THE BOARD UP HOLDING THE BY-LAWS. COMMITTEE CHAIRS CAN NOT REMOVE SOMEONE FOR A CODE OF CONDUCT VIOLATION.

The committee people are appointed by the President of the league, to run a committee, but those committee members do not have the okay to do anything they want – one of the many jobs of the board is to make sure that the members are treated fairly and within rules and the by-laws. If the Banquet director decides that we should hold the banquet at McDonalds because Happy Meals are cheaper than the $25.00 per person that we pay at the Patrician (should the board agree with that?) IF the trails director decides that they want to give every person that shows up for trails 100 points (because the director wants it –should it be okay?)) If you are the manager or a supervisor of a department at your job, does your boss let you do whatever you want? If he doesn’t do you quit? It would have been much easier for Bill to say that I do not agree with the decision of the board – but I will support it? Or does support only go one way?

I have played on The Challenge of the Lakes team for 6 years, I love Barb and Bill (they may not return that love after this post) it will not be same without them. But, it was not fair to a board that has supported them for years, to be attacked the way they were. Bill you called Phil while we were on vacation, to complain about a post by a member that was negative towards you (on this same forum thread). You wanted the post stopped and they were. Haven’t you done the same thing, which was done to you (that you did not like), to the board.

I love this league, I have loved every day of my job for 5 ½ years – but in the last few weeks – I have given serious thought to quitting because of the petty crap that is going on, I have cried more in the last two weeks over a job and the lost friends, than I think I have cried in the last two years. But I will not quit on a league that I think is far better than any dart league that I know of. I think about the new kids that are playing and how much they enjoy playing – We had pretty much a new team at Top Dawg this year and WE WON – they pulled together and we won - they deserve better than what they are going to see on this forum from people that say they love this league.
We may not win the Challenge – we have only won once in the last 6 years – but we will go and we will play the best that we can – and try to come home winners. YES WE WILL HAVE A TEAM.
I know that I have more than likely lost some friends over this post – if that is the case – I guess I thought of those people more as my friend than they think of me as their friend.
Dianna

Diana

Good for you. Dont worry I will be behind you and the board.

You guys did what you were supppose todo as a board.

Lets get ready for the CHallenge.... It may not be the same but we will make it fun and if not more fun.

Way to speak your mind and if they are your friends then this too will pass and they will get over themselves. I like both of them also but to trash talk on this forum because things did not go their way and to try and get people also to turn their backs is stupid and childish. ANd if people want to be followers rather than worry about making someone mad then that is on them.

Lets have some fun and if you need ANY help I have your back

ZUZU

I can't begin to tell you all how Marianne and I feel after reading all this verbage in the Forum. What was a Committee decision regarding "Offensive Parties" by removing the perpetrators from exposure to our Canadian "friends" at the "Frienship Shoot" should never have gone any further. It is not a matter for the League to undertake or even the " Board ". These people showed unsportsmanlike behavior and Deserved to be removed from the Team representing the USA LEDA darters.
In answer to some coments made on the Forum, I was at the Challenge and discussed the situation with the President, Phillip and offered my comments. The comments and the explanation of Diane Orav on the points of the charges are in order. The comments of Mike Orav are totally off the wall and unfounded. Re: Dianna's reference to those who complain and "Don't" run for office - we were founders and held all of the offices at one time or another, and probably will run again if required or needed !

Setting all of this aside - It would behove us all to really THANK Barb and Bill for the fabulous job that they have done for OUR Club for all these years !!!!

Denny Reim LEDA #21, CDC #264 Past President of Both Clubs
Marianne Reim, Denny Reim Life Members LEDA & CDC and Distinguished Darter
Recipients of both Clubs

To Tony Neal : We have had our differences in the past but i have gained alot of respect for you in the last two weeks. You accepted responsibility for your mistake and took your suspension like a man. It took two to create what happened and for you to be singled out is not right.
In Mr. Reim's last post he used the word FRIENDSHIP more than once. I am afraid there are alot of friendships being hurt or lost. This probably sounds like i am taking sides on this but i didnt come to the decision to not play this year easily. I have several FRIENDS on the Canadian team and it was tough for me to tell them that i wasnt playing this year. I also dont enjoy backing out of my commitment to the L.E.D.A. but I made this decision on my own and for anyone to imply that i did this because Barb or Bill is my friend is out of line.
Everyone: read Danny Boyce's post. He is friends with everyone! His post is impartial on this matter and if anyone is accusing him of making his statement because of friendships then you are way out of line. Danny i have your back.
It is terrible that it has come this far!



Tim

As a past president of LEDA, past Challenge director, past secretary, past CDC Board member, past Quad City director blah blah blah, I believe that the emotions of many are blocking the fact that a decision was made by the BOD. Right or wrong, a decision was made.

The facts are:

The board made a decision to place two people on probation based on actions at the Classic. Probation automatically puts that person in "not good standing". The challenge of the lakes rules identify that anyone not in good standing, cannot participate. Though the BOD over ruled the decision of Barb and Bill, the outcome is still the same. Both of the people involved who were put on probation are not allowed to play in the event.

My comments:
As a past president, I believe that the events leading up to the decision were not handled correctly. First, before any BOD makes a decision, ALL PARTIES SHOULD BE TOLD OF THE MEETING AND INLCUDED IN THE DISCUSSION. Based on what I know and have heard, that was not the case. I think THAT is an issue that needs to be addressed and I hope Phil is strong enough to see that. (I believe you are Phil)

I was also told that Chris and Dianna are now the new challenge directors. Since Dianna is our only paid employee, I believe that is a major conflict of interest. The club has run for years with many wonderful people who volunteer their time to run various positions. They don't get paid. I believe the office manager should not be involved in the direct management of any committee. This is NOT personal and I'm not saying that Dianna would abuse the privelage. The bylaws should be written to protect not only today, but the future as well. The duties of office manager as explained in the bylaws should be all they are allowed to do for any committee. They are paid to run the office. How can they effectively run the office, with the additional responsibilities of running a committe.

I have also previously posted my concern of the BOD being too involved in committees. I'll save further comments for a later post.

This is not personal. This a dart club and agreements/disagreements happen every day. I'm saddened by the direct bashing between people within this club who have worked very hard for many years. Many of which have always been friend. This forum can be a great tool if used correctly. Personally, to use it to blast others I think is not only childish but not at all necessary.

That's all I have to say....for now anyway
Kim Armstrong

It is very interesting hearing from another Past President that the "Current" situation has not been handled according to Hoyle. While I hope Dianna is still a friend I don't understand why she is taking this as a "personal issue"- in one of her posts she said that she was asked by the Board to interject the rules and regs supposedly guiding their decision. Why CAN'T an officer of this Club stand up and be heard - Why are you all hanging Dianna out to dry ????
You have no idea the turmoil you are starting with no easy means of resolve. You ran for Office - now do your jobs as you are expected to do !

Denny Reim

GOOD LUCK TO THE CHALLENGE OF THE LAKES TEAM -- I AM BUMMED THAT I CAN NOT GO -- BUT I KNOW THAT YOU WILL HAVE FUN AND PLAY YOUR BEST.
HAVE A SAFE TRIP AND HAVE FUN!!! :P

We did not win the Challenge this year, but thanks to everyone that went. I have heard that everyone from our team had the best time. The new players had such a great time and said that all the other team members were great.

I am sorry that I had to miss it - looking forward to next year.