Just my opinion, I believe we should move to a win loss record instead of adding total wins per night. I think this would make it a little more fun for some of the teams that are on the bottom half of each division. It sucks when you get drilled 10-1 and the team that won is mad because they lost an 801 game. This way these teams won't have to bury the lesser teams each week just to keep up with the #1 team. Does this make sense to anyone? In case of ties there could be a one night playoff. Your responses would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

It makes sense to me, especially because we're in the bottom half of our division. We can compete with the lower 4-5 teams, usually going 6-5, 4-7 or 7-4. But when it comes to playing the top teams, we get crushed 10-1 or 9-2 on a good night. Luckily, we understand that these teams cannot afford to lose more than 1 or 2 points, otherwise we would be upset when they threw their best guys even though they were up 9-0 or 10-0. Maybe a won-loss system would be better. That said, I believe the only division this affects is Diamond 1 where the separation of talented teams is more defined than in any other division. The worst part is that we would have been 5-9 last half and may have finished lower than we did with the current point system.

There is some merit to a win loss record. But I would wonder how and if games would be played after a team reaches 6 wins. Some people may not want to play the remaining games. Kind of a lame duck syndrome. JMHO

With the point system it only takes one good week to get back in the race. Looking at most divisions there are at least 2-3 teams that last week of the season that still have a shot. If we went by weekly wins you may know the winner in week 8, then why play the rest of the season.

In div. 1 we play best 2 out of 3 singles. I think it should go back to the old days when it was all 301. this gives a better chance for the less talented darter. It's really tough to beat one of the better darters in cricket.

Diamond 1 is usually decided by the 8th week any way. At least it is narrowed down to 2 teams by then. It's a whole different ball game in Diamond 1. You really have to get adjusted to losing.

The one thing that I like about CDC's format is playing best of 3 in 501 and best of 3 in cricket.

I think part of the idea of being in diamond 1 is because you are one of the better players in the league. I'm not a particular fan of just 301, because the ability to hit the correct double involves more talent than luck, so the more talented darter still has the advantage because of the simple fact that they are better. I also think a W/L system could be a viable option to try, possibly experiment with over the summer, with the point differential being the tie-breaker.

I do agree some of the better players are in D1 although there is still a wide talent difference. The best players could get stuck trying to double in. In cricket the better player will almost always win. strategy alone is crucial and not everybody in D1 understands that.

I’m tired of some people coming on here and trying to make things easier for the weaker player. For some reason it’s coming from diamond players who feel the separation gap is too great. God forbid if Johnny K or Darin Young were to play in our league. I guess achieving excellence is not what we want. I don’t win every week but I wish I did. It’s up to me if I want to try harder or quit. As Danny Boy has said maybe a point system for the summer could be a good experiment. I would put it like this:

Shutout----------7 points

10 to 1 or
9 to 2------------6 points

8 to 3 or
7 to 4------------5 points

6 to 5------------4 points

5 to 6------------3 points

4 to 7 or
3 to 8------------2 points

2 to 9 or
1 to 10----------1 point

Shutout---------0 points

Let's still give the better darter the advantage just so we can all get better.

Nice point system but, if the score is 9 to 1 or 7 to 3 why play the last game??

The point system is designed to keep the field close in points. If you shut me out then you only win 7 points as apposed to 11. I will be 4 points closer to catching back up. Giving me a better chance to win the div oh and as for the last game? I have been looking for a tournament lately that has a team event. Do we really need 3 team games in league night?

Tom,

I have heard discussions about the team games, and I take the side of having 3 team games. If we want to discuss how the format is, then is there a need for 4 singles, or is there a need for 4 doubles?

My feeling is that the team games help to limit the effects one player can have on a league night. In other league's formats, a really good or really hot player will have a greater impact on the results at the end of the night. This is because there turns are counting for a larger percentage of the turns taken. In a singles match, they're taking 100% of the shots, in doubles 50% +/-, depending on when the game is taken out. The team game, if the best player is shooting first, the highest percentage they can get is 40%, and that's if the turns go 180, 180, 180, 180, 81 out (If you really want to be technical, it would be 5 out of 14 darts thrown, or 35.714285. . . .%, but 2 out of 5 is easier). The more turns are taken, the percentage lowers:

Players
Turns 1 2 3 4
1-4 100 50 67 25
5-8 40 33 29 25
9-12 33 30 27 25
13-16 31 29 27 25
17-20 29 28 26 25
21-24 29 27 26 25

I'll stop there because 1) If you're throwing 72 darts in any game, you probably didn't win, so your big gun was probably shooting blanks, and 2) it flattens out from that point for the most part.

The point I am trying to make is that the team games serve as an equalizer, and I think that in itself is a good enough reason to keep 3 for league night. The other reason is because it keeps more players involved. There are several players that only play team games for various reasons (don't feel they're good enough, makes it easier on the captain, etc.), so eliminating 1 or more team games limits their opportunities to play. It's also a good way to balance the number of games for teams with 6 or 8 players (the 13-game formats with 1 team game only work for 4 and 5-man teams), everyone plays 4 or 3 games. Also with the 13-game format, if you only had 4 players, then you play 5 games, in LEDA you play 6.

I realize that we have a lot of players who would like league night to be 11 singles matches each week, but this is not a singles league, it's a TEAM league. If you want to play more singles, then come to trails (NOTE: THIS IS AN OBVIOUS ADVERTISEMENT) at either Lino's on Saturdays and Sundays, The Player's Club on Tuesdays, and Seaway on Monday's and Fridays.

I do like the point system Tom has laid out. The last game during a blowout shouldn't make any difference than it is now. However we would love to have the guys you mentioned in our league. Gary M. has already played here along with Mario and Ray(who now plays CDC singles on Wed. nights). I think a singles league in the LEDA would really be competetive here. Or maybe a draft league! Any thoughts?

I think a draft league would add some interest to it. It can definitely balance it from top to bottom.

I think the singles league idea could really fly. I think the big interest is playing singles (or at least that's what I can take from people's reactions), so you could probably get a pretty good turnout for that.

I'm all for changing things up for the better.

A draft league would be interesting, but how would the draft be set up? Who would be the 4-8 captains? I assume it would be a serpentine order? How many players per team? Would the league night format change?

I'm not asking to be a prick. I'm just asking because these are things that would need to be addressed before we go setting something like that up.

I know a little about the CDC Singles league, but I'm waiting for some feedback from a couple of the guys over there before I start supporting it.

Danny, In the early 90's the LEDA had a draft league for one half. Although it ended with some controversy, I thought it went well overall. We had 8 teams, I believe there were 6 people on each team. Not sure how captains were picked but I was captain and had 1st pick!! that was great for me because my team was all friends. That is the down side. one of the best players ever to play in the LEDA never showed up (2nd pick) because he wasn't happy with his team. On the other hand it was a pretty tight race to the final week.
As far as a singles league. from what I know, there are 12 players. They play every wed. at one location. I believe each player pays $40 plus the bar adds some money. they play 21 games of 501 against the same player each wed. We would obviously need a bar with at least 6 boards to make this happen. Not sure how their payout is.

Both are definitely something we can work on. I believe Luke Kollias does a lot of the stuff for that singles league. I'll see what I can find out from him. I like the idea of the draft, at least in D1. I think the players face each other enough that you know most everyone in the division. Then again, I have to work my way up there first.

a draft or singles night sounds interesting. but why limit it to diamond players? why not have a mix of emerald and saphire darters with the diamond guys (5 D's 3 E's 2 S's). this would give the other division shooters a chance to shoot against and learn from diamond players thus improving the play of the league. the only way to get better is to shoot better compitition, I've improved greatly just by going to trails shooting against much better players. this may help get more emerald and saphire players to trails once they get a taste of success playing better players

I agree spidey, let anyone willing to play in a draft league sign up. Alot of D1 players might not want to anyways. There is also a chance of not getting drafted at all.

OUCH!!! Not drafted? Not good for the ego.

Sorry, Spidey. I didn't mean to leave you out. I was using Diamond 1 as an example. I don't shoot in D1, but would love the opportunity to play against these guys again. I am willing to include anyone who wants to get better.

Is it $40 for the season or every week? That would be awesome. I would love to compete in something like that. Don't know if I'd be allowed in since I'm only in saphirre, but I think that would go a long way towards improving my game. Also, if you believe what they say, more leagues like that would help give guys from our country compete on the world stage since 501 is pretty much all they play.

Ian,

That cost would be for the whole season. We don't care what division you throw in. I am actually looking into it for interested players as we speak.

Dboy

Thanks so much Danny. I'd definately be interested. Let me know if there's anything I can help with. We appreciate everything you do for the league.

Sounds like a great idea. I think it would be a more accurate measurement of your ability. Playing 21 games against an opponent is a far better indication of superiorty. The "luck" factor is removed. Even playing best of three in singles is flawed because you're playing 3 different games.

You can even start a singles cricket league, too. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself.

Not to sound like a wiseass, Mike, but you are getting ahead a bit. I want to give this a start and see how it goes. I'm keeping all options open, including cricket, mixed, longer formats, etc., but I have to start somewhere. I have discussed the idea of the number of games, and 15 seemed like a good starting point. If we find that it's not enough, then we'll throw a few more legs on. I'm hoping to start it up in September to coincide with Fall league starting up. If you or anyone else knows of anyone interested, let me know. I'm making a list of interested players now, so I know what I'm dealing with as far as scheduling and such.

Dannyboy

Put me on the list!

Ian

you mentioned this on Saturday are you stll planning on it being a draft or a man against man? please spit out more info on a interesting plan. and put me on the list as a interested party.

It's going to be a singles league. I'm getting a list of interested players together now. We'll do this in the fall. As I have more details, I will get that information out.

Dboy,
Count me in

Jim Inman.

Dboy,

I know this new league is still in the planning stages so I thought I'd put in my two cents. Maybe we could model it after the Holsten premier league where guys play the best of 14 legs. Rankings are organized by win/loss record with wins being worth two points and draws worth one. Holsten also gives out some kind of prize or recognition for the highest out of each night. That might add a little more flavor. Anyway just a thought.

Danny

Don't forget to put me on the list.

Tom

Gotcha, Tom.

Ian, I thought about that method, too, but I would probably make it best-of-15 so we have a winner. Other countries like ties, for some reason. For example, their Premier league (soccer) has had 74 ties this season. To put it in perspective, the Cleveland Indians have had 91 games officially end in a tie in their 107-year history. Don't ask how I know that.

They like the point system, 2 for a win, 1 for a tie. Actually, the soccer leagues have been smarter about it and made it 3 points for a win. And I never understood hockey's idea about 2 for a win and 1 for an OT loss. Why reward someone because it took them longer to lose?

I'm taking all suggestions, names of all interested, and my own ideas and will discuss them at greater length when the time comes.

Count me in. If the number of interested players exceeds to number of boards at Linos we should contact the Stadium about being a second location as the Players Club is full on Thursdays. Maybe run 2 seperate divisions that way we don't have to keep track of what bar we are playing at on what night. If the need arises I would be happy to run and track one of the loations.

Another idea is to kick in a couple of extra bucks each week for the highest out of 101 or higher. If no one hits it, then it would carry over to the following week. Any thoughts?

I think that's an awesome idea. It keeps things interesting.

I think that would be cool. Maybe a quarter a game or something. or just a flat $2 or $3 a night per person. I can't imagine it's going to go many nights without getting hit with that may games being played. We're looking at around over 100 games of 501 a week aren't we at this point?

Easily. I'm really looking forward to it.

How many guys do we have at this point? Are we getting close to the 14 that we would limit out at? It wouldn't be bad if we could get enough guys to get 2 divisions going at some point. More than one bar like I mentioned before. then we could get a rotation going where guys could move up and down keep things mixing up new guys all the time. I know i'm getting ahead of myself. The way I've been playing i'd be in the lower division.

Not sure if I mentioned earlier, I would be interested in this. I think I talked to Dan at Lino's about it.