"Fear and Loathing"
Was the epsiode we missed due to "Presidential Speech tonight during CM" on January 10th this one or was it "No Way Out" I can't remember what was suppose to happen, but Fear and Loathing seems to be a pre super bowl title???
Unless No Way Out got bumped back a week for the speech and Fear And Loathing just ran out of pre Superbowl Wednesdays????
so dr spencer reid will not be stoned......or will he?
does this mean: out of order, confuse the neebies, awwhhhh not good, have to wait to see how everyone regroups...bad, madness....the new watchers will be confused as will I
ANY WAYS....

trailer **little spoiler alert**

The BAU becomes involved to prevent a possible race riot when the murder of four young black women in a mostly white New York suburb appear to be hate crimes.
till tommorow..
:canada:

Yeah, someone else brought this up too.....I hadn't thought about it but I think it's right....I think this was supposed to be on before the Superbowl episode. That is going to be very confusing to people that just started watching the show (due to the superbowl) hope they don't end up losing a bunch of fans they just made because they will be thinking the storylines don't match up and are too hard to follow.

Hopefully we are wrong on this.....I guess we'll find out tomorrow. The good news is at least we get another new episode! Bad news....we still don't know if poor Dr Reid is hooked! :blink:

Well, I don't believe they will lose viewers, MANY shows have done this. Air an episode that was late into the show.

I think that when the writers decided to add in the drug addiction storyline, they probably realized they had to work fast, and mostly likely they added scenes in. Which if they want to be consistent in their storylins, they can do that. OR if not, they can do one of those WARNINGS: Like this episode was pre-empted during the Presidental Speech and was suppose to air during that time. Or something to that affect.

people in Canada can watch it tonight on CTV...unless something goes wrong again...

Nothing went wrong and it was pretty good... Not enough 'Giddy' for our liking, but that's life :D The little bit between Morgan and Prentiss was 'uncomfortable' so I really don't see any major 'thing' happening there... Spoiler: They did clink mugs (that's an Elle Morgan thing!!) In any case, I'm looking forward to their dealing with the Reid thing... Spoiler: The good news is that he doesn't get the chance to actually take the drugs while 'on the clock'... The bad new is, that he's going through the process and probably should have had more time off... There was a look from Gideon that made me think Yay, he can see something wrong with Reid and then it was like, nope... So hopefully, we'll get the end of the Reid arc and soon...

So you are saying that Fear and Loathing has some reference to Reid's ordeal? It is NOT a pre Big Game episode??

I have posted a few small spoilers for the episode on my blog and the caps are all ready to post in a few hours. :)

http://criminalmindsfanatic.blogspot.com/

I'm guessing that if the episode really was supposed to air prior to Revelations, then Garcia probably didn't have as big of a role...I am so excited to see the episode tonight :)

spoiler i guess












i for one was not impressed with this eppy. I guess it had its suspense and all, but it wasn't thrilling like the two parter. The thing that kinda bugged me though was that when they came back most of them seemed indifferent as to what happened except for Reid who was having flashbacks. Good thing he didn't have time to take the drugs though. JJ especially was like...chirpier than ever.

I actually liked the episode, sure it was nothing like the two-parter, but it was still good in my book. I have to say, watching Reid today was very depressing, he looked so lost, :(

Good enough episode.....It was a lot like a season one episode - how they went about finding the unsub (I like how they talk their way through who the unsub must be and why)

Obviously there wasn't too much time to devote to Reid and the last episode. (they must have just edited in those scenes which was kind of weird because half of the time he was his normal self...spouting details and statistics and half the time he was very distracted and very quiet) If a good amount of time was supposed to have elapsed between when he was taken hostage and now and he still hasn't used the drugs and is aware he's having problems (and somewhat talking about it...to Morgan anyway) that's a good thing isn't it? If he were really addicted wouldn't he have used them by now? (or is that just wishful thinking on my part?)

At least they were trying to get something about Prentiss worked into the story....

Okay, that's all of my thoughts for now.

If this was suppose to be a pre-supberbowl episode, they would of had to grab elements from post-superbowl episodes. Reason I say this is because of that sci-fi series Morgan and Prentiss talked about at the beginning. She laid a book down and they further discussed it before going onto Morgan and Reid talking. Of course, they could of also just filmed them talking seperate.

BTW, the next episode of CSI would of been a great CM/CSI crossover [/daydreaming]

Okay.
So it was s'possed to be a pre-Revelations episode, but they edited it to make it more post- Revelations? Okay.
And I would absolutely LOVE a CSI/SM crossover, 'cause it would be wicked.
I liked the episode, but I'm going to say somwething here that people are gonna hurt me for..
I want Reid addicted, or at least thinking about it more, but only if Gideon/Hotch/Morgan realize somethings wrong and help him within a very short time.
Please don't hurt me.

I actually agree with you. I want to see this happen and see how the rest of the team reacts when they find out. Just not have it stretched for a long period of time.
I really did like this episode. It wasn't as "fast paced" as some as the others, but I still liked it.

I agree that a little drug problem would be all right so long as it didn't drag on. We know now that Morgan is concerned and yes, I noticed Gideon watching him. If they added scenes, they did it pretty well. Yes, he seemed normal at times, but that would be normal. And I don't think he took the durg long enough to be physically addicted. Perhaps he was just longing for the lack of pain that it gave him, pain from what he is thinking. I really liked the conversation between him and Morgan. Put Morgan back into the role of caring big brother. I almost cried when he almost cried (Reid).

Also as a HUGE Vonnegut fan, I loved the conversation about Kilgore Trout. Back before screen savers were photos, when they were just moving words, mine was Kilgore Trout Lives. I read all the Vonnegut novels in one summer with a good friend of mine, a former student who is soooo bright and funny. Even when I was out of town for 2 weeks, we would call each other and talk about the books. I thnk my husband was a little jealous, but then all we had together was books and computers. But hearing Morgan and Prentiss talk about it broguht it all back. I loved Mother Night, too.

Hi everyone :) First of all I really enjoyed last night's episode - I felt it was a bit more Morgan-centric (which is never a bad thing) but I thought that they dealt with the aftermath of Revelations fairly well.

SPOILER************











I had a thought, and wondered if anyone else shares it...clearly Reid has been traumatized by his experience, and as he said himself, he now "feels" what the victims must have felt immediately prior to being killed. A theory I have now, is that perhaps Reid is not yet addicted to the drugs, especially since it appears that he hasn't taken any yet, but maybe he is contemplating taking the drugs as an escape from the flashbacks he seems to be having and his inability to concentrate and focus...I mean, sure that could also suggest addiction, but it could be him thinking that by taking the drug he will be able to excape reality, the same way Tobias was trying to do...to me, it seems as if Reid's character is experiencing an inner struggle and trying to reason taking the drugs or not, even in spite of his apparent post-traumatic stress disorder.

Sorry about the rambling, but it was a thought I had last night after watching the episode :)

I'm really,really hoping Morgan helped Reid out in the end
of last night's episode! When he told him to use that experience
to make him a better person...I really hope he won't think about
taking the drugs now. :unsure: I loved last night's episode, because
it showed how kind Morgan is :D

It's ok, I do to.

I think it adds to the show (as long as they save him from himself, of course.)

I can't wait to see how Reid reacts to how the team is reacting!
I think it's nice to see he isn't just a ball of facts. (not that he was just a ball of facts. I mean, I'll stop now...)

I felt that there were too many unawnsered questions after last night.
Is Reid on drugs?
Does he know he's addicted (if he is)?
Would he have taken them if Hotch hadn't called him?
How long has passed?
Was that his first case since it happened?
Is he on Drugs?
Did his injuries leave any long tearm effects? (his heart did stop)
Does the team see somthing wrong?
Is what he's feeling normal like Morgan said?
Does Reid really want to be a better person?
IS HE ON DRUGS?!?!

plus many more that probaly should have been awnsered.

I think we're really not going to get any questions answered until next week about Reid.

If this was shot before the Superbowl (and they thought at the time it would be aired before it) the best they could do was....what they did - film a few shots to continue the storyline so it would make sense but they couldn't really address it.

I saw a few comments that Gideon was "watching" Reid and I thought I saw one about no one seemed to care about what Reid had been through......I saw scenes where Gideon looked lost in thought but I don't think Reid was in the room with him at the time (I need to rewatch it to double check on that) so I don't think he was really concerned over Reid's behavior and I don't think everyone else seemed concerned about Reid only because when this was filmed there was no reason to be worried about him. I think everyone will be watching and much more concerned about him from here on out.

Sorry that was sort of a long explanation to get to my point.

I think it could still go either way. But I don't see how they can drag it on for very long. Remember that when they go out into the field on a case they practically live together for at least a few days. How could Reid find time to take drugs and not be around any of the others for them to notice? Bedtime? I've never done drugs myself so I don't know....would an addict be able to wait until the timing was convenient or just wait for a few days if it wasn't? (it just doesn't seem like you could control yourself....am I just incredibly naive?)

I don't mind the story turning to him dealing with the trauma. I think I just hate to think of him using the drugs because that will somehow take away his innocence......that's just one of the things I like about his character - hate to see that lost.

I'll shut up now! :)

I don't think it would take away his inocence. I acctually think it might add more. That's just me though.

Anyway, I guess what I ment was that they shouldn't have even tried to salvage Fear and Loathing when it couldn't be aired at the right time.

I think you're right though. I don't think an Addict could wait for "convienct timing" but then again we saw last week how he went in the bathroom and almost used them.

I don't know, I guess we just have to wait.

Maybe innocence really isn't the right word....it's just his character has changed and there's no going back. I just miss the nerdy, quirky Reid of season one!

You know, those drugs really don't make him feel better.. they actually cause those flashbacks to his childhood, which probably wasn't the happiest time of his life, ESPECIALLY when he sent his mom off the mental hospital. It seems kinda weird he would be addicted to them if they made him feel worse.

I love this show

I agree, best they could do, splice and dice into the storyline, hopefully next week we will get a better idea of the "drug issue". And JJ was just a bit to happy to have just been attacked by CUJO!!
Yeuw

Not so simple as a happy memory. Remember he was going out to play with a friend. He had someone he played with. Think of what that means.

But because of her illness, she wants him to stay with her. He crawls into bed with her (slightly Oedipal there) and she reads to him, holding him there by guilt. The implied message is Don't go out and be normal and have friends Spencer. Stay here and be with me and not have a life.

He may have still enjoyed the reading and loved his mom but what was the cost of that happy memory.

I think Freud would have a field day with that scene.

I loved this episode and think they did a good job of splicing in new scenes. Not perfectly, but still a good job.

I loved the end on the plane. To me, the angst there was as intense as anything on Revelations. You could feel the emotional impact that all of this had on Spence. They should have added some interaction between him and JJ but then maybe they wanted it to seem as if she is distancing, chirpier that ever to mask her feelings. Remember how quickly she walked away after hugging Reid in the woods.

Oh, and one more thing. I JUST LOVE that of all the books to bring into the plot, they did Kurt Vonnegut. Just a little note about him. His mother committed suicide and his son is schizophrenic, though he was able to stay on his meds and lead a normal life. I have his book somewhere downstairs, though I will have to look for it. He describes his journey through hell till he fnally found the treatment and meds to deal with his illness. He eventually became a pediatrician. Vonnegut has often talked about the pain of being the son of a mother with a mental illness and the son of a suicide victim. Imagine his pain when his son headed in the same direction.

Vonnegut is one of my favorite authors. I have been lucky enough to see him in person discussing his books. I took off school the second day of school one year b/c there was no way I wasn't oing to see him. Then a couple of years later, he was back in town for another event. Unforgettable for me. Hi ho. So it goes. (in-joke for anyone who reads KV)

Cindy

The book is called The Eden Express. It is by Mark Vonnegut. Really good.

That could defently play in to later episodes.
Maybe that's why it was important to show this before the later episodes.

very interesting....I didn't know any of that.

I don't think dr spencer reid had anything resembling a "normal" childhood.
It was the look (i thought admiration), (yes, maybe more "oedipus complex")... when she invited him to read, as he intently stared at her face when she was reading. I thought he preferred reading than playing with a "friend"....reminds me of one of my fave dr spencer reid quotes

I love this show! Posted on Feb 15 2007, 05:56 PM

I really agree, Reid will never quite be portrayed the same way.
Very enthralling insight on Mark Vonnegut, thanks for that! It is to bad Fear and Loathing was shown "out of order", but they did a great job....the rest of the season should continue rolling!
luv it!
:canada:
jentzer

I didn't see that scene this way at all....it's an interesting thought but I just took it at face value...he wanted her to get up and she was trying to please him by doing something other than sleeping. And I think he did enjoy the reading......the going out to play comment I thought he made because he didn't want to stay there with her and see her that way. I thought it was a happy memory not a sad one.

Considering that this one had to be recut to fit into the previous storylines it was pretty good - although if they really want Reid to have a drug problem (one in which he doesn't simply fight the urge, but actually gives in) they're going to have to make him use soon or it's not going to make any sense if they suddenly have a scene of him high as kite during a debriefing or something. -- Although I'd still rather he fight off the urges (with or without help) and have that be the extent of his "drug problem"

I'm interested in how Reid's portrayal might change - I don't think they'll loose his quirks completely or anything, but he may grow a little more serious and a little more aware of what he's actually dealing with (as far as the horror that are some of these crimes) while working some of these cases - like Morgan said, he'll become a better profiler.

-phew- I thought you were all going to beat me with ladles after what I said last time.
I love this show- I love your siggy! v v v v v v cool.
And everyone's talking about Oedipus complexes.. we just read that book in Greek Lit.
I think I'm scarred. But I was thinking the same thing during that scene..
-twitch-
-Is Still waiting anxiously for next weeks episode-
I have BONES season one on DVD to tide me over until Wednesday, and maybe I can guilt my cousin into letting me borrow his CM DVD.. Though he knows me well enough to know that If I do borrow it, He'll never see it again..
BUT I DON'T WANT TO WAIT!!
I'm so impatient..

I, for one, rarley have the desire to beat people with ladles - maybe if someone said something completely illogical and based it off as fact...but that's neither here nor there right now.

Where you speaking of my siggie? It was all J.J. - she was kind enough to allow me to use it.

- Since the Oedipus Complex keeps coming up I'll throw my hat in. I can see how the image of young Reid climbing into his mother's bed is highly suggestive of this, and maybe that is what the writers were actually going for, but I think he was technically too old.

Here's a general definition:

In psychoanalytic theory, a desire for sexual involvement with the parent of the opposite sex and a sense of rivalry with the parent of the same sex. The term was introduced by Sigmund Freud in his Interpretation of Dreams (1899) and is derived from the mythological Oedipus, who killed his father and married his mother; its female analogue is the Electra complex. Considered a normal stage in the development of children ages three to five, it ends when the child identifies with the parent of the same sex and represses its sexual instincts. Freud believed that the process of overcoming the Oedipus complex gave rise to the superego.

I'm pressuming that young Reid was over 5yrs of age both in the scene where his father left and in that flashback so, unless his father was always almost entirely out of the picture during Reid's development, little Reid would not still be in that stage. And if he were, in fact, still in it Reid would, according to Freud, lack a moral and ethical compass which I do't think is the case. He may lack some social graces but Reid knows right from wrong.

-- Now is there a "nerd" smilie around cause I'm pretty sure I just went off on another tangent of nerd-like proportions :ph43r:

lol I don't know what a "nerd smiley face" would look like, but if you ever find one please let me know! :lol:

Yes, that's a definition concerning a normal relationship. In a normal relationship the boy reattaches to his father. But Reid was abandoned by his father and remained attached to his mother. I am not suggesting that he had a sexual feeling or relationship with her, but I do think that his seemingly overclose relationship with her does not seem normal. Normal little boys go out and play with their friends. They do not stay in for their mothers to read to them.

Granted, he did not do this because he was sexually attracted to her, but he felt responsible for her, not the normal mother being responsible for the son relationship.

I think that's why he doesn't date. When he asks Elle why he doesn't date, she asked him if he ever asked anyone on a date and he said no. Why not? His social development was hindered in that respect. How could it not be?

I have a close friend who makes me think of Reid in that his relationship with his mother is very odd. He is an adult yet she still holds him by guilt. She has had lots of illnesses and she kept him close to her for way too long out of his guilt. He finally took a job three hours from home and the guilt he feels for that is incredible. He is a moral person who knows the difference between right and wrong, but his attachment and worry about what his mother wants and the guilt when he does not give her what she wants is not normal. I think it has hindered his social development. He is great friends with me and my sister and another woman at school, but then we are all older women. He has no relationships with women his own age. He does not date because he lacks the social skills he needs for a romantic involvement. He uses books to substitute for a social life.

Hopefully Reid will not still be dealing with that when he is 38.

Cindy

We know that:
Elle was raped and lost her dad (in the line of duty),
Derek was Sexual abused,
a Gideon decision killed 6 fbi agents
Dr Spencer Reid "raised" his mother.....all weighing heavily on normal upbringings.
We know
(because it's TV) that
Prentiss has come from a "desk job", (I THINK WE WILL SEE MORE TO THIS) lived in the Middle East, is emotional unattached and I'm sure has one huge skeleton in her cupboard.

And I'm not sure the Mark Vonnegut angle was anything more than a common link for Morgan and Prentiss.

When will Wednesday arrive....Tuesday here in the Canada's!!
:canada:

Woah, Elle was raped? What episode was this revealed? I surely don't remember. :huh:

ETA: This was in response to ckb's reponse to me.

Oh, I agree, Reid is unusually close to his mother in a not entirely healthy way. I also agree that this closeness during childhood probably lead to his issues with girls now simply because he didn't have the same socialization with peers as other boys and girls did.

I just think it's less Oedipal-specific (again, because Reid should be past this phase some years before his father leaves) and more of a general lack-of-socialization issue. If it were his father that were sick and made him stay in the house as a child - or if he were kept close to both his parents and away from other children - he would still have these social (whether dating or otherwise) issues.

-- Of course, I always get tweaked a bit when people say "Oedipus Complex" anyway because the average person tends to misunderstand what's actually being dicussed whenever this term comes up.

I'm sort of saying: Yes the relationship with his mother did cause his social stunting, but that's not what it HAD to be....Does that make sense? :(

diane:
Posted on Feb 18 2007, 04:50 PM

****HUGE SPOILERS This is from the original csating sides and a press release from CBS, contains certain casting/profiles which some people might not want to read....mainly GIDEON?ELLE and MORGAB fans****
If you go way back, way back to the beginning....... :D
Just Scully (check topic in characters as well) posted this link:
http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx?id=6832
QUANTICO (CBS) - Mandy Patinkin ("Dead Like Me"), Shemar Moore ("Birds of Prey"), Lola Glaudini ("The Handler") and Matthew Gubler ("The Life Aquatic With Steve Zissou") have all joined the cast of the drama pilot, a suspense thriller that centers on the F.B.I.'s Behavioral Analysis Unit (B.A.U.). Patinkin will play Spec. Agent Jason Donovan, described in the casting notice as "35-45. Experienced and has been around the block, deceptively average-looking, articulate, with a commanding presence, he's a seasoned FBI profiler who traded in field work for seminar instruction after witnessing a dozen cops die in a shrapnel bomb. He maintains a close relationship with his ex-wife, a psychiatrist, who has been helping him deal. When a serial murderer plagues the Seattle area, Donovan is asked to return as a full-time Unit Chief, but kept under close supervision."

Glaudini then is set as Spec. Agent Elle Greenaway, described as "Late 20s. All ethnicities. She is a young, sharp, resourceful and feisty FBI agent with a background in sex offender cases. Her specialty area stems from having been raped at age 19, and the assailant never having been caught. Elle impresses the hell out of the task force members, which is what she wants, as she is bucking for the opening in the BAU (Behavioral Analysis Unit) at Quantico. According to her "file," Elle's biggest character flaw is impatience."

As for Moore it's expected he'll play Spec. Agent Derek Morgan, who's detailed as "30-35. All ethnicities. He is a handsome, confident, fast-talking FBI profiler, an expert on obsessional crimes. A witty, direct lady charmer who trains new agents, Morgan joins the special profiler team led by Donovan, to save a woman from becoming the fifth victim of a deranged serial killer."

Gubler's character wasn't specified.

:canada:

Isn't it possible that Reid never dates because "he was 12 and hadn't been through puberty yet when he graduated high school" and not some weird Freud thing with his mother? I mean there weren't exactly a whole lot of girls around his age right? I'm assuming after high school he went to college to get his 3 PHD's - again, chances of finding girls his own age would be pretty scarce and then he apparently went to work for the FBI. It's pretty hard to find a date when you are never around people who might interest you.

We know he didn't have a normal childhood but I think a lot of that was due to his genius as well as his mother's illness (and he probably would feel he had to take care of her all those years instead of the other way around.)

I think his social skills are lacking simply because he never got the chance to learn to relate to others his age due to his circumstances.